The new COVID thread

[Bene Futuis]

As more stories are pushed highlighting prominent right-wing anti-vaxxers dying of COVID, the thing that strikes me the most is that many of these folks actually believed what they are selling, enough to die for their beliefs. I really figured most people peddling crazy do it because it sells, not because they actually believe it. But seeing so many of them die unvaxxed, it seems a lot of these folks are touting their sincere beliefs. I guess it does not matter all the much in the grand scheme, but it makes me think of them differently.

Right wing Christian conservative radio host Bob Enyart has died of COVID.

Enyart gained fame by reading the names of those who had died of AIDS while laughing and calling them sodomites. He also lied to his listeners, claiming the COVID vaccine had been tested on aborted fetuses. He prevailed in a lawsuit in which he sought an injunction against the State of Colorado in its attempts to impose mask mandates at his church, the Denver Bible Church.

Good luck dealing with St. Peter, I guess, fella. You died like you lived: stupid, dangerous, and full of hubris.

[Teenwolf]

As more stories are pushed highlighting prominent right-wing anti-vaxxers dying of COVID, the thing that strikes me the most is that many of these folks actually believed what they are selling, enough to die for their beliefs. I really figured most people peddling crazy do it because it sells, not because they actually believe it. But seeing so many of them die unvaxxed, it seems a lot of these folks are touting their sincere beliefs. I guess it does not matter all the much in the grand scheme, but it makes me think of them differently.

Some have changed their minds, admitted they were wrong just before dying.

The biggest revelation for me was seeing an interview with Caleb Landry, the guy who started a militia of anti-vaxxers called the Freedom Defenders, then died from Covid. He said something that really clearly illustrated the connection between right-wing thinking and anti-vax/anti-science thinking. Masks and vaccines and following safety protocol is completely new and foreign, and that's entirely antithetical to Conservative ideology. They fear and fight against change, in all forms. Landry put it so succinctly, saying "we don't want masks, and we don't want vaccines. We just want to go back to things like they were before."

That's it. It's more about a fear of change than anything else, and Conservative mindset fearing change forces them to dig in instead of confronting reality. That's been my biggest takeaway of late.

[chancellor]

That's it. It's more about a fear of change than anything else, and Conservative mindset fearing change forces them to dig in instead of confronting reality. That's been my biggest takeaway of late.

While this is a popular media-driven illusion, the data driven facts sure don't support the point, overall. Sure, there's a fair number of loudmouths on the right that oppose vaccines and mask mandates. But overall? The oldest age groups - 65+ are both more conservative than the norm AND about 84% vaccinated. 50-64 is over 70% vaccinated. Young adults - who lean more liberal than the norm - are much less vaccinated. The age 25-39 age group is only about 54% vaccinated, age 18-24 notably less.

The African-American population, overwhelmingly Democratic voters, have the lowest vaccination rate by racial demographic. And it's not really close.

Data source, in case you're wondering, is the CDC itself: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...raphics-trends

[The Feral Slasher]

While this is a popular media-driven illusion, the data driven facts sure don't support the point, overall. Sure, there's a fair number of loudmouths on the right that oppose vaccines and mask mandates. But overall? The oldest age groups - 65+ are both more conservative than the norm AND about 84% vaccinated. 50-64 is over 70% vaccinated. Young adults - who lean more liberal than the norm - are much less vaccinated. The age 25-39 age group is only about 54% vaccinated, age 18-24 notably less.

The African-American population, overwhelmingly Democratic voters, have the lowest vaccination rate by racial demographic. And it's not really close.

Data source, in case you're wondering, is the CDC itself: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...raphics-trends

It's these loudmouths that piss me off more than any individual who doesn't get a vaccine. Every responsible news source should be directing people to get info from medical professionals. When did vaccines become part of politics ? Why are people afraid of this vaccine in particular, yet they have gotten many other vaccines ?

EDIT: i went to a football game a week or so ago with my doctor friend and we asked him about this. He had a very simple answer for everyone who asks him. "The Vaccine is safe and effective".

[Bene Futuis]

It's these loudmouths that piss me off more than any individual who doesn't get a vaccine. Every responsible news source should be directing people to get info from medical professionals. When did vaccines become part of politics ? Why are people afraid of this vaccine in particular, yet they have gotten many other vaccines ?

EDIT: i went to a football game a week or so ago with my doctor friend and we asked him about this. He had a very simple answer for everyone who asks him. "The Vaccine is safe and effective".

Republican lawmakers, mouthpieces, media personalities, propagandists (from Fox to OAN to Newsmax and on and on) are to blame. Chancellor is fucking high. It's obviously a left (get the damn shot) versus right (stick a UV light up your ass while chugging bleach and consuming horse dewormer) issue. In fact, vaccination rates are a better predictor of 2020 voting patterns now than racial demographics, or pretty much any other demographic, and even a better predictor than 2000 voting patterns. Deep red states have the lowest vaccination rates and on and on and on. I mean, the partisan nature of vaccination is pretty damn obvious, at least to me. Same for mask wearing, social distancing, etc. Hell, Republicans are actively preventing local governments and school boards from enacting preventative measures to fight COVID, threatening their jobs and their funding. Polling is extraordinarily clear on this, with a recent poll I saw showing 95% of Democrats already vaccinated or plan to be while only 40% of Republicans say the same. Another poll shows 58% of Republicans saying they will never get the shot while only 15% of Democrats say the same. Other polling has different numbers but similarly enormous gaps between Dems and Repubs. Conservative leaders are killing their own. Research published in peer reviewed journals showed Republicans taking their early cues from the idiots leading their party and then stuck to them no matter what, to their obvious detriment and to everyone else's as well.

[Bene Futuis]

In really good news, though, it sure looks like we'll be getting a vaccine approved for kids really soon. Pfizer presenting theirs to the FDA by the end of the month. It has been awful and nerve wracking having a kid who can't get vaccinated.

[DMT]

In really good news, though, it sure looks like we'll be getting a vaccine approved for kids really soon. Pfizer presenting theirs to the FDA by the end of the month. It has been awful and nerve wracking having a kid who can't get vaccinated.

Unless you consider January "really soon", you're being over optimistic.

[Bene Futuis]

Unless you consider January "really soon", you're being over optimistic.

Well, the optimistic timeframe is "by Halloween", according to a former FDA head who's on the board of Pfizer. Fauci said October or November. The more reachable goal, I hear, is end of the year. Either way, it's both soon and not soon enough, I suppose.

[The Feral Slasher]

Republican lawmakers, mouthpieces, media personalities, propagandists (from Fox to OAN to Newsmax and on and on) are to blame. Chancellor is fucking high. It's obviously a left (get the damn shot) versus right (stick a UV light up your ass while chugging bleach and consuming horse dewormer) issue. In fact, vaccination rates are a better predictor of 2020 voting patterns now than racial demographics, or pretty much any other demographic, and even a better predictor than 2000 voting patterns. Deep red states have the lowest vaccination rates and on and on and on. I mean, the partisan nature of vaccination is pretty damn obvious, at least to me. Same for mask wearing, social distancing, etc. Hell, Republicans are actively preventing local governments and school boards from enacting preventative measures to fight COVID, threatening their jobs and their funding. Polling is extraordinarily clear on this, with a recent poll I saw showing 95% of Democrats already vaccinated or plan to be while only 40% of Republicans say the same. Another poll shows 58% of Republicans saying they will never get the shot while only 15% of Democrats say the same. Other polling has different numbers but similarly enormous gaps between Dems and Repubs. Conservative leaders are killing their own. Research published in peer reviewed journals showed Republicans taking their early cues from the idiots leading their party and then stuck to them no matter what, to their obvious detriment and to everyone else's as well.

I would love to hear a response from Chance because it does appear to me that the anti vax/anti mask push is all coming from the republican/right wing. Although the behavior of some democrats doesn't always help.

[revo]

It's true that there are three 'anti vaxxer' camps -- right wingers, African-Americans & young adults.

But it's also true that only one of those camps have actively campaigned against it and used all means necessary to discredit it and influence others for political reasons, all because of ONE CLOWN. If that clown had embraced the vaccine that he supposedly launched and tries to take all the credit for, we likely would not be in this predicament to this extent today.

I read an interesting take on it in an article last week, that right wingers are not taking the vaccine because it's now being pushed by Dems. What stupidity, and this is why many don't feel any empathy for those right wing anti-vaxxers who die from covid.

[chancellor]

I would love to hear a response from Chance because it does appear to me that the anti vax/anti mask push is all coming from the republican/right wing. Although the behavior of some democrats doesn't always help.

Simple. Bene can vent all he wants. Absolutely, there's a segment of the right-wing that opposes the COVID vaccines and detests mask mandates and they're using all the Alinsky tools they've learned the past twenty years or so to fight the Biden administration. But the numbers don't lie. Older adults vote much more conservative than younger adults, yet are vaccinated in far higher numbers. African Americans vote overwhelmingly Democratic, yet are by far the lowest vaccinated racial group. And that's CDC data.

We can speculate on the reasons all we want. Media personalities and stations that are right-of-center have a notably older skew to their viewers. Media that is left-of-center has a mostly younger skew to their viewers, except for CNN, which has bled so many viewers that it's tough to tell what's left. Social media has taken an aggressive anti anti-vax stance, with Facebook and Twitter in particular censoring anti-vax postings. Again, younger adults get more of their news from social media than older adults.

So, unless, little white guys like Tucker Carlson suddenly have Darth Sidious-like mind control powers, the odds of the right-of-center media significantly influencing the most liberal age and racial demographics - who, by the way, watch them the least - is exceedingly slim to me. I mean, c'mon, seriously, do you think Tucker Carlson is influencing Nikki Minaj?

So, I'll throw my highly cynical POV out there. If I were the governor of a deep red state with a significant African American population, but I've had little success getting votes from that population, what position could I take that both a decent to high number of my base likes AND would appeal to the African American population?

I'll just say that answer is as obvious as a poke in the arm.

[ironfist]

So, I'll throw my highly cynical POV out there. If I were the governor of a deep red state with a significant African American population, but I've had little success getting votes from that population, what position could I take that both a decent to high number of my base likes AND would appeal to the African American population?

I'll just say that answer is as obvious as a poke in the arm.

You were doing fine up until here. It is absurd to think that governors of deep red states give a damn about what could appeal to African Americans. The same governors who are doing their best to get voter restriction laws passed that would impact them the most, right?

It's pretty clear what's happening with these groups. African American vaccination rates are down because of distrust of the government due to historical atrocities. Young people think they are invincible so they don't think they need it. The rest, well, that falls on all the disinformation coming 99% from the right. And I don't even think you can keep blaming Trump any more on this, as he's come out saying, sheepishly maybe, to get the vaccine (and getting booed loudly for it). Maybe he started it or at least didn't do enough to promote them in the early stages but it's something that even he wouldn't be able to convince his followers to do.

[Sour Masher]

Simple. Bene can vent all he wants. Absolutely, there's a segment of the right-wing that opposes the COVID vaccines and detests mask mandates and they're using all the Alinsky tools they've learned the past twenty years or so to fight the Biden administration. But the numbers don't lie. Older adults vote much more conservative than younger adults, yet are vaccinated in far higher numbers. African Americans vote overwhelmingly Democratic, yet are by far the lowest vaccinated racial group. And that's CDC data.

We can speculate on the reasons all we want. Media personalities and stations that are right-of-center have a notably older skew to their viewers. Media that is left-of-center has a mostly younger skew to their viewers, except for CNN, which has bled so many viewers that it's tough to tell what's left. Social media has taken an aggressive anti anti-vax stance, with Facebook and Twitter in particular censoring anti-vax postings. Again, younger adults get more of their news from social media than older adults.

So, unless, little white guys like Tucker Carlson suddenly have Darth Sidious-like mind control powers, the odds of the right-of-center media significantly influencing the most liberal age and racial demographics - who, by the way, watch them the least - is exceedingly slim to me. I mean, c'mon, seriously, do you think Tucker Carlson is influencing Nikki Minaj?

So, I'll throw my highly cynical POV out there. If I were the governor of a deep red state with a significant African American population, but I've had little success getting votes from that population, what position could I take that both a decent to high number of my base likes AND would appeal to the African American population?

I'll just say that answer is as obvious as a poke in the arm.

Love ya, Chance, but you are really cherry picking when you claim numbers don't lie here. Revo is right, there are three anti-vaxxer camps, and you are right, that two of those camps, AAs and young people skew left. However, there is another number you are ignoring here. All of the same polling data very clearly and significantly indicates that Dems are far more likely to be vaccinated and get vaccinated than Repubs. It is not close.

And the idea that all these Republican politicians are enacting anti-mask policies and spouting anti-vax rhetoric to pander to AAs and the young is as silly as speculating that All Democratic politicians are pro-vaccination and pro-mask to court the right. It makes no sense. It is as obvious as can be that on this issue, one side is being responsible, pushing the science, despite key segments of their base (young people and AAs) being vaccinate hesitant and mask averse, and that is the left. And the other side is pushing against vaccination and masks, spreading FUD that is certainly killing people, and that is the right. Even if you don't believe any of the polling that very clearly shows Republicans are less vaccinated than Democrats, you can look at the politicians elected by those two groups, and you cannot deny the politics in play. Unless you think all of the Dems are altruistic saints that put the safety and well-being of the people above politics, they are clearly pandering to their voters, and the same is true on the right.

[Sour Masher]

You were doing fine up until here. It is absurd to think that governors of deep red states give a damn about what could appeal to African Americans. The same governors who are doing their best to get voter restriction laws passed that would impact them the most, right?

It's pretty clear what's happening with these groups. African American vaccination rates are down because of distrust of the government due to historical atrocities. Young people think they are invincible so they don't think they need it. The rest, well, that falls on all the disinformation coming 99% from the right. And I don't even think you can keep blaming Trump any more on this, as he's come out saying, sheepishly maybe, to get the vaccine (and getting booed loudly for it). Maybe he started it or at least didn't do enough to promote them in the early stages but it's something that even he wouldn't be able to convince his followers to do.

Yeah, this sums it up. Two of the groups who are vaccine hesitant are so for the non-political reasons as you make clear here. One is clearly anti-vax because of politics. To deny that COVID vaccination is very clearly politically divided takes some serious denial of the facts.

[Ken]

There are approximately 95 million unvaccinated white people in the US spreading the virus and filling up hospitals.
There are approximately 25 million unvaccinated black people in the US spreading the virus and filling up hospitals.

Using % of race vaccinated to somehow blame this problem on black people feels really, really gross. That's an embarrassing takeaway to try to bend this problem into. Although it feels typical sadly.

Additionally, conflating vaccination rate with anti-vaxx "push" requires some serious mental gymnatics. There's a huge difference between a "Proud Boy" shouting through a megaphone about his anti-vaxx stance and a minority who fears for his safety and distrusts a govermnent that used them as lab rats. Mixing those two feels really lazy and disingenuous.