Originally posted by The Feral Slasher
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So Amazon turns down NYC -
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Originally posted by nots View PostIn your utopia or in the real world?---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Postsays the libertarian, lol
BTW—I thought you said you were done posting about this a couple of hours ago. Another factual inaccuracy I guess.
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Originally posted by nots View PostHmmmm---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by nots View PostQuasi-Libertarian. I feel like I have mentioned that a couple of times before but you seem unwilling to understand or acknowledge it.
BTW—I thought you said you were done posting about this a couple of hours ago. Another factual inaccuracy I guess.
or am I ?---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Capitalism is an economic system that is characterized by private property, freedom of economic exchange, competitive markets and limited government intervention. While the government doesn't set prices in a free market, the market does through the law of supply and demand.
I can respect that you look at this transaction as a "transfer of wealth" and that mom and pop will not have the ability to formulate a transaction like that of the Amazon's, Wal-Mart's, Home Depot's and other large Corporations. Of course we were saying this 20 and 30 years ago about places like Sears, JC Penny, K-Mart, Circuit City, Blockbuster and the like and how the small business couldn't compete with them.
This transaction/trade is still supply/demand driven though. NYC has a need for capital and quickly as they have infrastructure issues galore between bridges and subway repair - let alone paying teachers more. So Amazon has the jobs to offer and NYC offered to buy those jobs. All of those jobs would necessitate new or revitalize old businesses - many mom and pop's that dont directly compete with Amazon.
My father in law used to run/own a hardware store. He competed in his area out of convenience - but he told me its a terrible business because you have to keep so much inventory on hand. It was to expensive to stock everything in his store. He was still competing in his space and eventually sold it and moved on to other things.
I am a Libertarian - but more importantly I am pragmatic.
So yes while Amazon will get some tax credit for a period of time, there will be numerous other businesses that will come into being and likely flourish because the Local Government made a trade of goods (to the benefit of all included and to the potential benefit of those that come after).
There is nothing stopping anyone going forward from directly competing with Amazon - they just have to find a way to deliver in a manner that is more reliable and cheaper. There is also nothing stopping any of those Mom and Pops from growing in some other arena which may cause other businesses to go out of business.
Competition has Winners and Losers. Amazon appears to be a huge winner at this point. Oh and just as a reminder - Amazon was started in a garage and competed with everyone. They found a way to do it cheaper and more efficiently than anyone else - it seems that they may have won that competition. Winners get offers in the free market that losers dont (its the nature of winning)
So while I can understand your concern about the initial $3B tax credit - from the Libertarian point of view. The pragmatist in me looks at it and says - Why would anyone compete with Amazon - they won the largest portion of that specific market. The net gain to the Local Municipality, along with the multiple transactions that will happen in multiple markets from this Local Government investment appears to create more free market opportunities than it may curtail.
I am a Libertarian - make no mistake about that. I also understand if a city goes bankrupt or cant pay for its infrastructure and upkeep people will leave the area which ends up in places like Detroit (where there are plenty of empty houses and little business is being started or revitalized).Last edited by baldgriff; 02-17-2019, 07:15 PM.It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years and we must stop it.
Bill Clinton 1995, State of the Union Address
"When they go low - we go High" great motto - too bad it was a sack of bullshit. DNC election mantra
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[QUOTE=nots;332958]Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View PostI mean, yes, subsidizing Amazon is stupid, but it’s certainly understandable given the amount of tax revenue they are bringing to your city. It’s also stupid to battle to get them out of your city (with its crumbling infrastructure) once they have selected you. It’s also stupid to have a $700B defense budget or to pour money into social programs with duboius (at best) results or to advocate tearing down our already existing southern border wall. Government makes a lot of stupid decisions IMO....I just don’t think Amazon’s tax break is near the top of the list.
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Originally posted by baldgriff View PostCapitalism is an economic system that is characterized by private property, freedom of economic exchange, competitive markets and limited government intervention. While the government doesn't set prices in a free market, the market does through the law of supply and demand.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Aligning the interests of the state with monopolies sounds more like fascism than libertarianism.If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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[QUOTE=nots;333026]Originally posted by nots View Post
Yes, that certainly reads like I support corporate welfare—especially the sentence where I say ‘subsidizing Amazon is stupid’.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by DMT View PostAligning the interests of the state with monopolies sounds more like fascism than libertarianism.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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[QUOTE=The Feral Slasher;333030]Originally posted by nots View Post
i guess I don't understand why you are arguing with me then, that was my whole point
I don’t think NYC should be giving tax benefits to Amazon.
The reality is cities are going to give tax benefits to Amazon in order to gain the jobs, prestige and most importantly, tax money from its employees.
If the people of NYC are in favor of Amazon coming, and Amazon selects NYC, I think it’s dumb for the elected Reps of NYC to now discourage Amazon from coming.
I don’t believe NYC should be giving tax benefits to Amazon.
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Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Postperhaps you misunderstand ?If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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[QUOTE=nots;333034]Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View PostLet me boil it down.
I don’t think NYC should be giving tax benefits to Amazon.
The reality is cities are going to give tax benefits to Amazon in order to gain the jobs, prestige and most importantly, tax money from its employees.
If the people of NYC are in favor of Amazon coming, and Amazon selects NYC, I think it’s dumb for the elected Reps of NYC to now discourage Amazon from coming.
I don’t believe NYC should be giving tax benefits to Amazon.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
---------------------------------------------
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
Comment
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