Switching from saves to saves+holds - what to expect?

[cardboardbox]

My league is thinking about switching from saves to saves+holds. How does this change keeper and auction strategy?

I'm thinking there is no more scarcity in the S+H cat so all closers lose some value and some of the lower tier closers may go unrostered. I'd be more willing to pay the extra $ for SP in this format because S+H will always be very easy to find, so no reason to pay much for them. OTOH everyone is going to have so much S+H coming out of the auction that in a weekly format its going to be impossible to catch up if I dont have enough on opening day. Last year 19 pitchers had 20+ holds, 30 pitchers had 20+ saves. We'll probably auction well past 19 set up guys. 50-60 RP (incl closers) taken at auction wouldnt surprise me.

[Don Quixote]

My first thought is that you may find some bargains among the lower tier but still rosterable STARTING pitchers as everyone pursues the better setup men. Look for good LIMA types with good K/9 rates.

Second, be willing to take some of those lower tier closers IF their peripheral stats are decent. If the others are pursuing holds, take the saves. Just because the "H" is all the rage doesn't mean the "S" is any less valuable.

Third and final, be patient. if the better setup guys are going for crazy amounts, don't join the madness. Just as with saves, you can trade for them later if necessary.

[CoachK]

I'm in an NL-only league that has had this category for a while, and I find that people still overpay for closers because they still seem like a sure thing (even when we know they're not), and they underpay for holds. Theoretically, 20 saves should be the same as 20 holds, but a 20-save guy might go for 15-20 bucks while a potential 20-hold guy can go for a buck or two. Maybe it's just harder to project holds. So I don't go out of my way to get closers, and try to find set-up guys with good skills, and sometimes they become closers anyway. The best part is even if they don't get the closing job, they usually get the holding job, and that's just as good. Last year I bought Melancon and Rosenthal cheap and did just fine, while someone else spent 30 bucks on Papelbon and finished well behind me in the category.

You might have some people in year one who completely misread the value of the hold, but you just have to be prepared for that and take advantage of it.

[kldub4life]

It even further enforces the idea of buying skills not roles philosophy.

[Sour Masher]

It even further enforces the idea of buying skills not roles philosophy.

Yes, and it should also devalue RPs in general, as it deepens the talent pool at that position.

[bryanbutler]

we've gone to saves minus blown saves plus holds/2 (SV-BS+HD/2) in my main league and are pretty happy with it. it really separates the wheat from the chaff.

i think JWRL uses SV+HD still.

with straight SV+HD you get a massive upheaval of value in relievers that seemed disproportionate to us. if you really go that way, don't bother with closers, unless they go at bargain basement prices - target the good setup guys.

[cardboardbox]

It even further enforces the idea of buying skills not roles philosophy.

exactly. Why buy a closer in this format unless everyone decides to pass on them?

My first thought is that you may find some bargains among the lower tier but still rosterable STARTING pitchers as everyone pursues the better setup men. Look for good LIMA types with good K/9 rates.

Third and final, be patient. if the better setup guys are going for crazy amounts, don't join the madness. Just as with saves, you can trade for them later if necessary.

I'm thinking since RP will be easy to find and buy, its the SP on the pitching side that get a scarcity bump in value. I'd like to take the money I save by avoiding closers and put it directly into upgrading a mid range SP I would have previously purchased.

Yes, and it should also devalue RPs in general, as it deepens the talent pool at that position.

Thats what I was thinking. So many useful RP out there, pretty much interchangeable. Just give me 4 RP that get holds and I'm good. But looking at the stats, it looks like on most teams the closer will get more saves than the top set up guy will get holds. Hmm, but I didnt look at the set up guy's holds+saves.

with straight SV+HD you get a massive upheaval of value in relievers that seemed disproportionate to us. if you really go that way, don't bother with closers, unless they go at bargain basement prices - target the good setup guys.

You might have some people in year one who completely misread the value of the hold, but you just have to be prepared for that and take advantage of it.

I'm counting on a lot of owners not quite understanding the change in valuation.