Hamels suspension - how long should it be?

[Lucky]

Leyland is a good manager, but no jurist. Hitting the kid on purpose was wrong. Admitting it didn't make it any worse. We don't suspend players for stupid comments or for trash talking.

And saying that the penalty should be two months just because it would later be appealed and reduced is just bad reasoning. People establishing penalties should make them what is proper and fair, not intentionally make them too harsh just because they think the penalty might later be reduced. In fact, that idea is self-defeating. Concluding that the penalty was made artificially harsh almost guarantees that the penalty will be reduced.

Between having Harper humiliate him by stealing home as he did, plus later getting plunked in retribution...those probably hurt Hamels more than the actual suspension. It sure adds an early chapter to the Harper story...hit him and he'll make you pay in a way that really hurts.

[cavebird]

We don't suspend players for stupid comments or for trash talking.

John Rocker says hello. And if we don't suspend players for stupidity, maybe we should. And as for Hamels---if you are so old school, why are you talking about it? That certainly isn't old school.

[Lucky]

John Rocker says hello. And if we don't suspend players for stupidity, maybe we should. And as for Hamels---if you are so old school, why are you talking about it? That certainly isn't old school.

I don't think it was simply stupid comments or trash talking that got Rocker suspended. I think it had more to do with the racist and sexist remarks. And the homophobic comments. Racism, sexism and homophobia are a whole different level.

[ironfist]

I don't think it was simply stupid comments or trash talking that got Rocker suspended. I think it had more to do with the racist and sexist remarks. And the homophobic comments. Racism, sexism and homophobia are a whole different level.

While the comment was stupid, it also conflicts with the "clean image" that MLB is trying to project. Think of how harshly the NFL came down on the Saints' bounty scandal. On the surface, it probably goes on everywhere and it probably didn't really have any tangible effect on the field. However the public perception of the act is that it is a vile thing. The NFL has to come down harshly to stay consistent with the image that they wish to project.

Same with Hamels - his comment forced MLB to suspend him for contradicting the image that MLB is trying to project.

If you think it's dumb to try to maintain a clean image, witness how the NBA was hurt when they were perceived as a league of "thugs" just a decade or so ago.

[Long John]

If you think it's dumb to try to maintain a clean image, witness how the NBA was hurt when they were perceived as a league of "thugs" just a decade or so ago.

This changed? I hadn't heard.

[chancellor]

While the comment was stupid, it also conflicts with the "clean image" that MLB is trying to project.

Then the league is even more stupid than I give them credit for. The "clean image" has nothing to do with the unwritten code between the lines.

And for old-timers not bragging about hitting people, are you kidding me? Feller, Drysdale, Gibson, Ryan and Clemens - thinking of five just off the top of my head - bragged about hitting batters, brushing them back, making sure they don't dig in, and so on.

Long John's points are good ones - taking away this aspect of the game diminishes the game while bringing no value relative to a clean image. Fans want some toughness in the game, not a pussified version of the sport. The NFL came down on the bounty program for legal reasons to CYA, not for any reason relative to a "clean game". They're wanting to reduce severe hits for legal reasons, not because fans want them to do so. Fans love watching Troy Polamalu blast a wide receiver into next week.

[Mithrandir]

No suspension as i just traded for him

[Long John]

Then the league is even more stupid than I give them credit for. The "clean image" has nothing to do with the unwritten code between the lines.

And for old-timers not bragging about hitting people, are you kidding me? Feller, Drysdale, Gibson, Ryan and Clemens - thinking of five just off the top of my head - bragged about hitting batters, brushing them back, making sure they don't dig in, and so on.

Long John's points are good ones - taking away this aspect of the game diminishes the game while bringing no value relative to a clean image. Fans want some toughness in the game, not a pussified version of the sport. The NFL came down on the bounty program for legal reasons to CYA, not for any reason relative to a "clean game". They're wanting to reduce severe hits for legal reasons, not because fans want them to do so. Fans love watching Troy Polamalu blast a wide receiver into next week.

I may bronze this last paragraph just so I have something to point to when my wife says I'm never right. Thanks for the support, chance.

[ironfist]

This changed? I hadn't heard.

the NBA's had a bit of a resurgence the last year or so.

It's like the NHL with fighting. Behind closed doors they like it when there's a fight on the ice and fans love it too, but they can't come out and endorse it publicly or they'd face a publicity backlash. This isn't the 1960s where all that old school stuff was praised. Everything has to be so PC and so the leagues are image conscience. To come out and say that he intentionally hit the player looks bad on the league if they don't punish him. Of course the punishment is really non-existant since he won't miss any time really or any real money.

[cavebird]

Then the league is even more stupid than I give them credit for. The "clean image" has nothing to do with the unwritten code between the lines.

And for old-timers not bragging about hitting people, are you kidding me? Feller, Drysdale, Gibson, Ryan and Clemens - thinking of five just off the top of my head - bragged about hitting batters, brushing them back, making sure they don't dig in, and so on.

Long John's points are good ones - taking away this aspect of the game diminishes the game while bringing no value relative to a clean image. Fans want some toughness in the game, not a pussified version of the sport. The NFL came down on the bounty program for legal reasons to CYA, not for any reason relative to a "clean game". They're wanting to reduce severe hits for legal reasons, not because fans want them to do so. Fans love watching Troy Polamalu blast a wide receiver into next week.

But then he should just be suspended for not being old school. He wasn't trying to back Harper off the plate, Harper wasn't all over the plate. He wasn't responding to a perceived slight or retaliating for someone else being hit. He just decided he was going to hit the rookie. I have no problems with suspending a guy for being an idiot.

[chancellor]

But then he should just be suspended for not being old school. He wasn't trying to back Harper off the plate, Harper wasn't all over the plate. He wasn't responding to a perceived slight or retaliating for someone else being hit. He just decided he was going to hit the rookie. I have no problems with suspending a guy for being an idiot.

I hear where you're coming from about stupidity having it's own penalties, but I'm still not for it. Gibson used to bury people just because he was in a bad mood. And since he's in the NL, Hamels gets to answer for it when he comes up to bat.

[Erik]

It's like the NHL with fighting. Behind closed doors they like it when there's a fight on the ice and fans love it too, but they can't come out and endorse it publicly or they'd face a publicity backlash.

This doesn't make much sense. They DO endorse fighting, by keeping the rule that (in most cases) you only get a five-minute penalty for doing it. And the publicity backlash angle makes no sense -- the issue is older than dirt and everyone has already taken a stand on it.