2k16 Brutal Trade Offers

[Hammer]

I was offered Preston Tucker, Brandon Kintzler, Chris
Coghlan and Hisashi Iwakuma for Francisco Liriano, Matt
Olson, Brandon Drury and Jeff Hoffman.

Keeper league. I couldn't see it. Can you?

a keeper league where you get no keepers and very little talent. Makes sense to me.

[Dans]

a keeper league where you get no keepers and very little talent. Makes sense to me.

You would be for the Tucker et al "haul"??

[overkill94]

That trade seems to break down to Iwakuma/Kintzler for Liriano/Olson - seems like kind of a pointless trade.

[Hammer]

That trade seems to break down to Iwakuma/Kintzler for Liriano/Olson - seems like kind of a pointless trade.

this except I also like Drury and think Kintzler is close to being worthless. The Liriano side of the deal is better today and in the future.

[Hornsby]

Hammer is right, there's just not much "there" there. It's really not a horrible offer, as much as a "why the hell" offer. Unless you value Tucker over Drury, or think that Hoffman will escape the Coors funk, there's no reason for either side to do this deal, IMO.

[Sour Masher]

I was just offered Maikel Franco for my choice of Ian Desmond or Chris Davis. Franco would have to be extended, while I have Davis next year for $20, and Desmond at $31, which isn't looking so bad a price right now. And I'm trying to win this year, competing with the owner who made the offer, so I have no desire or reason to dump.

I guess he figures getting me to dump is twice as good as he is competing with me, but then he should offer twice as much!

[Hornsby]

Ehhhh, what would Franco have to be extended to? And while Desmond is tearing it up, he'll likely lose SS and infield eligibility next season, and there's really no clue where he'll end up.

That's certainly not a horrible offer, IMO, in fact at the beginning of the season , it would have been a horrible offer in the other direction, laughable, really.

[Sour Masher]

Ehhhh, what would Franco have to be extended to? And while Desmond is tearing it up, he'll likely lose SS and infield eligibility next season, and there's really no clue where he'll end up.

That's certainly not a horrible offer, IMO, in fact at the beginning of the season , it would have been a horrible offer in the other direction, laughable, really.

I think it is a pretty bad offer to make to someone ahead of you in the standings, because it is clearly a dump deal, unless you believe Franco is going to outperform Desmond or Davis the ROS. I don't think he will come close to doing that. To me, an offers horribleness often has to do with the situation the teams involved are in. The team making me this offer is trying to pass me in the standings. I don't understand the logic of the offer at all, unless he thinks Franco is a stud keeper and close the ROS to Desmond or Davis.

I'm sure Desmond will cool down, but Davis was probably the best hitter in baseball in the second half last year, and heating up again. And Franco would have to really start producing for me to consider him a strong keeper in a 14 team mixed league, but that is a very distant second in importance to the ROS for me, since I'm trying to win this year. It may be possible that Franco outperforms Desmond the ROS, but I don't see any indication of that right now.

Edit: Now, if he is willing to give me Correa, I might give up, give him Desmond and Davis, and let him pass me, but he ain't offering Correa, and wouldn't give him .

[Hornsby]

Take Davis out of the equation, you're not going to deal him. And pretend that it's April 1st and someone offered you Franco for Desmond...you would have throught that they were crazy, and you couldn't have hit "accept" fast enough. Look at the prices, and the projections...I'm betting that Desmond slows down some, and Franco heats up. There's a reason he's considered a stud prospect. It's by no means an outrageous offer, IMO.

[Sour Masher]

You certainly may be right on Desmond. No way he ends up hitting over .300. But I think he still outperforms Franco the ROS by a good bit based on the 4 other cats.

I had Franco as a prospect. I'm the one who dealt him to the other owner. Franco raked as a prospect but many well respected scouts hated his swing. He was not a consensus top prospect. I ended up siding with the naysayers, and I've been wrong so far in that assessment. But I still don't see a star in Franco. Maybe I'm wrong. But even if I liked Franco the ROS ahead of Desmond, while he wan's Desmond as an OFer (he has Correa AND Machado at SS), I need Desmond in my MIF. Trading Desmond leaves me starting Howie Kendrick. Even if Franco outpoints Desmond the ROS, I'm losing in that deal without another MIfer to start.

And one could respond, well, how should he know all that when making me an offer? He does, cuz I've been bugging him for a MIFer for awhile, but even if I hadn't, to me, it is important to assess team needs when making an offer. Offering a 3bman to someone who doesn't need one but does need the MIFer you are asking for, and offering that 3rd baseman primarily as a keeper vs as an equal swap for this year to a team ahead of you and trying to win, make the particular context of this offer a bad one.

[Hornsby]

You certainly may be right on Desmond. No way he ends up hitting over .300. But I think he still outperforms Franco the ROS by a good bit based on the 4 other cats.

I had Franco as a prospect. I'm the one who dealt him to the other owner. Franco raked as a prospect but many well respected scouts hated his swing. He was not a consensus top prospect. I ended up siding with the naysayers, and I've been wrong so far in that assessment. But I still don't see a star in Franco. Maybe I'm wrong. But even if I liked Franco the ROS ahead of Desmond, while he wan's Desmond as an OFer (he has Correa AND Machado at SS), I need Desmond in my MIF. Trading Desmond leaves me starting Howie Kendrick. Even if Franco outpoints Desmond the ROS, I'm losing in that deal without another MIfer to start.

And one could respond, well, how should he know all that when making me an offer? He does, cuz I've been bugging him for a MIFer for awhile, but even if I hadn't, to me, it is important to assess team needs when making an offer. Offering a 3bman to someone who doesn't need one but does need the MIFer you are asking for, and offering that 3rd baseman primarily as a keeper vs as an equal swap for this year to a team ahead of you and trying to win, make the particular context of this offer a bad one.

That's simply not true...Franco was ranked as high as #26 in the MLB prospect rankings, so he was indeed consedered a consensus top prospect, especially at his position.

The guy already has 11 homers for a crappy team, and is on pace for the middle 20's at least.

Now, your needs on your particular team are another thing indeed, and I can see that.

But again, it's certainly NOT an unbalance trade offer, execpt to you. And you still haven't told me what Franco would cost next season...that certainly factors into it as well.

[Sour Masher]

That's simply not true...Franco was ranked as high as #26 in the MLB prospect rankings, so he was indeed consedered a consensus top prospect, especially at his position.

The guy already has 11 homers for a crappy team, and is on pace for the middle 20's at least.

Now, your needs on your particular team are another thing indeed, and I can see that.

But again, it's certainly NOT an unbalance trade offer, execpt to you. And you still haven't told me what Franco would cost next season...that certainly factors into it as well.

I meant by not being a consensus top prospect that some scouts and rankings had him much lower than others, but, yes, even though opinions differed greatly on what he'd become, because of his unorthodox swing, overall, he was still a top prospect. And he showed why last year, especially in the power department.

Franco can be extended next year for however long desirable. He can be 10 for 2 years, 15 for 3. So if he does begin to hit better, he would be a good keeper.

I guess posting this offer in a thread called brutal offers wasn't appropriate, but I maintain my general stance that a trade offer should mostly be judged based on context. A cheap Franco for an expensive Desmond to a dumping team is a good offer. But just because it wouldn't be a bad offer to anyone else but me, doesn't change that it is a bad offer to me, since I'm the one he is making the offer to, and my situation/team needs make it so the offer makes no sense.

[Dans]

Hammer is right, there's just not much "there" there. It's really not a horrible offer, as much as a "why the hell" offer. Unless you value Tucker over Drury, or think that Hoffman will escape the Coors funk, there's no reason for either side to do this deal, IMO.

Yes, well mentioning it in a thread about brutal offers was perhaps a stretch. The Liriano side is obviously my side of this deal - I saw it as a downgrade for me.