Wow, that's pretty surprising! He wasn't nearly the same pitcher he once was, but I thought he had a couple of decent years left in the tank.
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Roy Halladay Retires
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He's a different breed of cat, so I'm not surprised, and I mean that as a great compliment.
Nobody started off worse and got so much better; would like to see him get in the Hall...
updated active Wins Leaders
Rank Player (yrs, age) Wins Throws
1. Tim Hudson (15, 37) 205 R
CC Sabathia (13, 32) 205 L
3. Bartolo Colon (16, 40) 189 R
4. Mark Buehrle (14, 34) 186 L
5. Derek Lowe (17, 40) 176 R
6. Barry Zito (14, 35) 165 L
7. Roy Oswalt (13, 35) 163 R
8. Freddy Garcia (15, 36) 156 R
9. A.J. Burnett (15, 36) 147 R
10. Cliff Lee (12, 34) 139 L
Johan Santana (12, 34) 139 L
12. Bronson Arroyo (14, 36) 138 R
John Lackey (11, 34) 138 R
14. Justin Verlander (9, 30) 137 R
15. Josh Beckett (13, 33) 132 R
Ryan Dempster (16, 36) 132 R
Jake Peavy (12, 32) 132 R
pitching is hardfinished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84
SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
C Stallings 2, Casali 1
1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1
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Originally posted by eldiablo505Not sure if I'd vote Halladay in. I think I'd lean toward "no" but would have to give it some more thought.Only the madman is absolutely sure. -Robert Anton Wilson, novelist (1932-2007)
Faith is believing what you know ain't so. -Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
-- William James
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I don't think Halladay makes the Hall, at least not with the BBWAA. He is coming in right at the beginning of a new era of pitchers, where win totals won't be as high, important for the knuckleheads, lower IP, lower K, and so forth compared to Clemens, Johnson, Maddux, and even Pedro. If the pitching trend continues as it is, similar players like Halladay will have a better shot, on the basis of some of those starting pitchers from the era will need to be inducted, but his overlap with the greats will hurt him tremendously.
I just think it'll be a lack of recognition for Halladay. He might get in, but it'll be after at least 10 years of voting...and the starting pitching trend needs to continue as it has been for the past 10-15 years.Considering his only baseball post in the past year was bringing up a 3 year old thread to taunt Hornsby and he's never contributed a dime to our hatpass, perhaps?
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I think he is a HOFer, but the injuries may cost him his ticket, at least for awhile. He'd be more of a slam dunk if injuries didn't cause his sudden decline and retirement, obviously. But, of course, "if and buts" is an endless game on a lot of players, and I understand small hallers keeping him out. He is not a slam dunk by any stretch with his final stats. But for a good long stretch, he was one of the best, or even arguably THE best pitcher in all of baseball.
I tend to favor guys who were the best for awhile, over guys who were very good for a long time. Although, that too is a skill, represents value, and should be rewarded. It is a balancing act, and limit cases at both extremes always make for interesting discussions. (As an aside, I contrast Halladay with someone like Jamie Moyer, as the other extreme--there was some talk about how he'd have to get in the HOF if he somehow managed to limp past the 300 wins threshold; I understood the value his longevity and consistency brought to the game, but I'm more biased against that sort of player being a HOFer--Halladay is a close call for me, but Moyer never was close to me, even if he had managed 30 more wins).
Obviously, the ideal HOFer is one of the very best for a good long, consistent, durable career. Halladay doesn't fit that mold, but his start burnt so bright at times, I think he should make it.Last edited by Sour Masher; 12-09-2013, 03:51 PM.
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The fact that you all are debating whether Roy Halladay gets into the Hall Of Fame or not just goes to show what a broken and failed representation of MLB the HOF has become!
Maybe I'm a bit biased, as he's one of the only dominant players I've had the pleasure to watch for most of their career (Doc + Delgado), but Roy Halladay was a shutdown pitcher that piled up a ton of complete games in an era where that wasn't happening anymore. Ultimately, his workhorse mentality probably pushed him past the point of breaking at only 36. He gave his body to the game, and he needs to be in there.
Then again, the HOF list is currently a sh!tshow. No clue how that gets resolved.
Actually, just start up an ASTERISK wing, and open the damn floodgates. Enough with the moral grandstanding, and MLB revisionism. Just honor the damn players that entertained us, whether they doped for a boost or not!Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."
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Originally posted by eldiablo505I don't understand what this means. For me, there are slam-dunk guys like Maddux, Pedro, Clemens, Big Unit that all are shoo-ins. The rest, Mussina, Halladay, Smoltz, Schilling, Kevin Brown, Saberhagen, are all worthy of conversation and maybe even induction for a few but they're no locks.I'm just here for the baseball.
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Originally posted by chancellor View PostWhile I agree with you about Pedro, a lot don't. The only two I see as slam dunks are Maddux and Big Unit.
Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Pedro Martínez. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com
Look at his career, look at his numbers in his prime (1997-2005) compiled at the height of the steroids era, look at his "Hall of Fame Statistics" section.
If someone can look at the numbers, tell me he's not qualified, and do it with a straight face, I'll be impressed with that person's acting ability.Only the madman is absolutely sure. -Robert Anton Wilson, novelist (1932-2007)
Faith is believing what you know ain't so. -Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
-- William James
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Originally posted by eldiablo505Totally agree with this post. The biggest reason Halladay gets close to HoF status for me is that he was the best pitcher in all of baseball for a couple years there. I'm still leaning toward "no", though....
In the 10-year span from 2002-2011, he was 1st in his league in pitching WAR four times, top 4 eight times. In one of the two years in that span where he wasn't in the top 10, he went 16-7 with 225 IP and a 121 ERA+.people called me an idiot for burning popcorn in the microwave, but i know the real truth. - nullnor
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Originally posted by Don Quixote View PostSomeone seriously questions Pedro's being qualified for the Hall?
Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Pedro Martínez. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com
Look at his career, look at his numbers in his prime (1997-2005) compiled at the height of the steroids era, look at his "Hall of Fame Statistics" section.
If someone can look at the numbers, tell me he's not qualified, and do it with a straight face, I'll be impressed with that person's acting ability.people called me an idiot for burning popcorn in the microwave, but i know the real truth. - nullnor
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Originally posted by Controller Jacobs View PostIf Pedro is held back, there will hopefully be a sincere push to retire some voters who can't understand some of the new-fangled stats like ERA.If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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Originally posted by eldiablo505Halladay was either the best in baseball or close to it from 2008-2011.
One could argue Pedro was the best those two years, but Halladay's workhorseness resulted having 505 IP acress those two years, compared to Pedro's 385. And Toronto really needed those innings - their other starters stunk (3 starters with an era above 5 both years)people called me an idiot for burning popcorn in the microwave, but i know the real truth. - nullnor
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