Best Zeppelin song ever?

[Lucky]

The issue was never whether they would be found legally accountable. That's what multimillionaires have multimillionaire lawyers for. They've been settling out of court for decades now. But there's no hiding from the fact that they ruthlessly stole riffs, lyrics, entire songs and passed it off as their own ... especially their early work. It was always going to be more of a credibility issue than a legal issue.

For me it was always that they knowingly took this stuff and claimed it was their own ... left a sour taste, especially given the way they were hero worshiped. I understand why they did it, especially on the first record. They were wannabes and nobodies, not legends ... what had they to lose? Who cares about long term credibility when you are just another band trying to get noticed.

... but the silence and denial, the out of court settlements. Seems a large part of their "creativity" was listening to obscure recordings or stuff most people don't know about, "borrowing it" and sticking their name on it. Who's gonna notice?

Still a great band ... they just lost their shine a bit IMO.

This response surprises me a bit. I know that johnny is pretty much an expert in all genres of music, including American blues. It was commonly accepted that blues artists would borrow (steal) at will from each other, without attribution, and incorporate techniques, riffs, melodies, lyrics, rhythms, and entires songs, holding them out to be their own. In their earliest work, LZ borrowed from the blues canon in much the same way. You can call it theft. Or you can call it homage to the canon. Or you can call it doing the same thing blues men had done for decades and decades before them. Page could play some blues.

The tracks in question weren't especially obscure to a blues fan. But they were done in a unique style. Which is undoubtedly why LZ claimed them. But also why they decided not to fight the cases. Settling out of court is the legal way to say "I'm sorry", no matter what the paperwork says.

The "Taurus" thing was different. Obviously, they didn't think they were liable. This case probably would have been cheaper for them to settle.

[johnnya24]

This response surprises me a bit. I know that johnny is pretty much an expert in all genres of music, including American blues. It was commonly accepted that blues artists would borrow (steal) at will from each other, without attribution, and incorporate techniques, riffs, melodies, lyrics, rhythms, and entires songs, holding them out to be their own. In their earliest work, LZ borrowed from the blues canon in much the same way. You can call it theft. Or you can call it homage to the canon. Or you can call it doing the same thing blues men had done for decades and decades before them. Page could play some blues.

The tracks in question weren't especially obscure to a blues fan. But they were done in a unique style. Which is undoubtedly why LZ claimed them. But also why they decided not to fight the cases. Settling out of court is the legal way to say "I'm sorry", no matter what the paperwork says.

The "Taurus" thing was different. Obviously, they didn't think they were liable. This case probably would have been cheaper for them to settle.

I don't mind that they borrowed stuff, sampled stuff, were influenced by stuff ... that is music. It's the fact that they brazenly passed it off as their own ... and not once or twice, but numerous times (and that's just what we know about).

I like LZ like pretty much everyone who likes guitar music, but I never really felt the need to deify them or defend them against all detractors. You know yourself these stories go back decades.

A large part of their creative process, moreso on the early records, seems to have been lifting music from obscure artists and relabeling it. Now that relabeling was pretty awesome and stands up on its own. Like I said previous, they are still great records ... I will not stop listening to them ... it just takes the shine off the more you know. The creative process is such an important part of credibility in rock circles, and there's no doubt they were passing lots of artists work off as their own. The fact that they won't be upfront about it is what gets me. It makes me dislike them as people, and it's hard to really love a band if you thinking the members are dicks.

... then again the members of Pink Floyd are dicks and I love that band

[overkill94]

Well, my favorite albums of theirs are Houses of the Holy, IV, Physical Graffiti, and III so all the blues borrowing on the first two records didn't bother me at all. The Beatles started off as a cover band but didn't really change the songs much so of course they would credit the original artists. It was dumb of LZ not to credit the original artists for some of the obvious ones ("You Shook Me", "The Lemon Song", "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You") but what they did with those songs was remarkably different (except for "You Shook Me" which is basically a lazy blues cover) and what's important to me.

It's possible that legal teams were just much worse back in the 60s/70s because shit like this would never fly in modern times. I find it unfair that LZ get marked as rip-off artists when they have a plethora of purely original songs that most bands would kill to write ("Kashmir", "Misty Mountain Hop", "The Ocean", "Immigrant Song", etc.) The fact that they're considered such an important influence on so many bands in the 47 years since they started making music speaks for itself.

[Lucky]

I don't mind that they borrowed stuff, sampled stuff, were influenced by stuff ... that is music. It's the fact that they brazenly passed it off as their own ... and not once or twice, but numerous times (and that's just what we know about).

I like LZ like pretty much everyone who likes guitar music, but I never really felt the need to deify them or defend them against all detractors. You know yourself these stories go back decades.

A large part of their creative process, moreso on the early records, seems to have been lifting music from obscure artists and relabeling it. Now that relabeling was pretty awesome and stands up on its own. Like I said previous, they are still great records ... I will not stop listening to them ... it just takes the shine off the more you know. The creative process is such an important part of credibility in rock circles, and there's no doubt they were passing lots of artists work off as their own. The fact that they won't be upfront about it is what gets me. It makes me dislike them as people, and it's hard to really love a band if you thinking the members are dicks.

... then again the members of Pink Floyd are dicks and I love that band

Here's a couple of things I have problems with in this post. The small problem first...you use the statement "and that's just what we know about". I don't think that is fair comment. It implies there are similar justiciable claims out there. Do you have a reason to believe that, or is it said for prejudicial effect?

Now, the other. Maybe I am just under-informed, but I do not see what you mean by "brazenly passed it off as their own". I read about a claim over "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You". Page heard it on a Baez album. Baez didn't credit a songwriter. Page assumed it was an old folk song, and LZ credited it as "Traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page". Some years later, the songwriter contacted the publisher and agreed to a split of the royalties. Now, I had heard that this was one of the songs Page and Plant "stole". But when you read the whole story, it was Joan Baez who stole it, and Page thought it was a traditional folk song. Is that brazen? If you think so, you have a pretty low bar.

Including "Babe I'm Gonna...", I found five cases where they had claims made against them. Bear in mind that they weren't for five whole songs. Like with Taurus, you can file a claim for a minute or less out of an eight-minute song.

I didn't have the resources to find out all of the particulars, but I'm still not sure on the "brazen" part. I mean, Plant has admitted that he used other people's work. I think he said he took a lot of Whole Lotta Love lyrics from elsewhere, although he claims that the Page riffs were original. I don't think he was brazen in the sense of "I'm stealing and I don't care if anyone knows". Not Donald Trump brazen.

Oh, yeah, sorry about the Brexit deal.

[Erik]

During a wedding reception last night, I wondered, why hasn't Bob Seger been sued for "Old Time Rock and Roll"? Listen to Edgar Winter's "Keep Playing That Rock and Roll" from 1972.

[chancellor]

During a wedding reception last night, I wondered, why hasn't Bob Seger been sued for "Old Time Rock and Roll"? Listen to Edgar Winter's "Keep Playing That Rock and Roll" from 1972.

Because Seger didn't write it, George Jackson of the Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section did. Seger claimed to have rewritten the lyrics but receives no credit - and has no copywrite control - over the song. Seger gets no proceeds from the commercials it's been used in since, either.

[Gregg]

Best Zeppelin song ever?...somebody else's?

[overkill94]

It actually changes fairly regularly, but right now my favorite Zeppelin song is "Going to California"...it's just gorgeous.

[Mithrandir]

[senorsheep]

I keep coming back to That's The Way, one of the truly underrated gems in their catalog. That ethereal pedal steel guitar floating in and out of the mix gives me chills.

[chancellor]

the verdict is in: led zeppelin did not plagiarize spirit's "taurus" for the "stairway to heaven" intro.

And now it's officially official, Led Zeppelin is off the hook:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/led-zeppelin-win-stairway-heaven-153218849.html

[Mithrandir]

And now it's officially official, Led Zeppelin is off the hook:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...153218849.html

Good. It was a ridiculous lawsuit.

[chancellor]

Bump.

[Sour Masher]

Bump.

This is as good a thread as any to ask if any of you are familiar with the band Greta Van Fleet. Inferior song writing aside, it is amazing how much their lead singer sounds like Robert Plant. Here is one of their better songs:

[The Feral Slasher]

This is as good a thread as any to ask if any of you are familiar with the band Greta Van Fleet. Inferior song writing aside, it is amazing how much their lead singer sounds like Robert Plant. Here is one of their better songs:

My daughter played them on our recent road trip. Have only heard a song or two. Darkness is the one i recall