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An Intro to Vintage Drafting

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  • An Intro to Vintage Drafting

    On the old site, we used to have a thread that contained a lot of info for beginners. i'll copy paste what I can from the other threads here, and maybe we can keep this updated. as we go along.

    VD 1 will be a Letter (last name) draft, using Additive Scoring.

    This means that everyone will have to draft 24 players (hitters and pitchers), and they can only draft 1 player per letter of the alphabet. Once you have picked that letter, all other players from that letter will be off limits. So for instance, if I pick Barry Bonds in the first round, I can't pick another player whose last name starts with B: Lou Brock, Jeff Bagwell, Vida Blue, Charlie Buffington etc

    Letter Rankings:

    BCMSW: an abundance of players at these letters.

    DGHR: reasonably strong

    AFJKLPT: care needs to be taken with these letters

    ENVO: these letters are weak

    QUIZY: very weak (usually we pick 3 players from QUIZY, other times all 5 must be selected)

    ERA Eligibility:

    Due to the uneven stats that are provided in certain era of baseball (Deadball Era, Modern "Juicing" Era), we put restrictions on the number of players that can be selected from these periods:

    Dead-Ball hitter is any hitter who played at all in 1898 or any season prior to 1898.
    Dead-Ball pitcher is any pitcher who pitched at all in 1913 or any season preceding 1913.
    Contemporary hitter is a hitter who played at all in 1999 or any season after 1999.
    Contemporary pitcher is a pitcher who played at all in 1999 or any season after 1999.

    IP Minimum:

    In order to prevent extreme punting strategies on the pitching side, each team must total a minimum of 15,000 innings pitched (I think this was the number! ... I have 17 and 18,000 in my mind also).

    Some general rules:

    No discussing or making direct reference to undrafted players. You can make indirect comments regarding a position or a roster slot, but no direct mentioning of undrafted players.

    There is a 12 hour clock during weekdays, and the clock is suspended over the weekend. If you know you will be away, it is preferable if you can forward a pick (or choice of picks) so the draft can move on in your absence.

    If you miss a pick and time out, you will be skipped until you return. Later in the draft this rule is suspended, and all picks must be made before the draft can proceed. This is to prevent some teams getting an unfair advantage.

    The John Montgomery Ward Rule

    I think (!!!) a player can be selected as a hitter or a pitcher where they are eligible for both. There are a few cases (e.g. Ward, Ruth) where a player is draft eligible as both a hitter and a pitcher. For example, John Ward the Hitter and John Ward the pitcher are viewed as separate players. I don't remember why we decided this, but we did.

    Positions

    Everyone must draft all of the following positions:

    C
    C
    1B
    2B
    3B
    SS
    MI
    CI
    OF
    OF
    OF
    OF
    OF
    UTIL

    Px9

    Scoring

    We will use the standard additive roto scoring, where all the scores from each category are added up to provide a final total ... in this case it will be a 20x20 Additive draft. Other times we use multiplicative scoring ... in this format be multiply rather than add the scoring categories together.
    Last edited by johnnya24; 12-19-2012, 07:21 AM.

  • #2
    I might be interested if someone can explain to me what the heck is going on here.

    -How does one play?
    -How does one win?
    -How much time is required? How often?

    This might be more interesting that regular baseball to me.
    It's pretty simple once you get into it

    We draft players from the history of baseball, and use the typical fantasy 5x5 stats as the scoring criteria. So anyone familiar with fantasy baseball will get it right away. We use the players career stats as well as a preferred best year (which is up to the drafter to pick), so in effect, we play 10x10.

    The time you spend on it is up to you ... on average you will have to pick about once every couple of days ... if we move fast, every day. So that could mean you spend a few minutes every day, or a lot longer.

    Of course there are a lot more specific rules, but that's the basics.

    Much more fun that fantasy baseball BTW

    Some basic rules:

    Handicaps: I think we have only had one draft without a handicap. Lately we have been using Decades, but for most of the time it has been Last Name letter eligibility. We normally have a serious of polls before the draft starts to determine the set up. Typical handicaps:

    Decades: Select a maximum of one hitter and one pitcher from each decade
    Last Name: Select a maximum of one hitter and one pitcher from each Letter
    Franchise: Select a maximum of one hitter and one pitcher from each Franchise

    Different handicaps change the values of the players ... i.e. Urbina is an early pick in Last Name format, and possibly goes undrafted in Decade format. This shakes things up a bit ... especially when we try a new format for the first time.

    Clock ... we normally have a 12 hour clock during weekdays (I think), and no clock on weekends. So it's fairly relaxed (until ElD gets tilted).

    Scoring: We have two methods for scoring (1) traditional additive scoring - add up the 10x10 scores for each team, and (2) multiplicative scoring - multiply them together. Whichever we choose changes the draft dynamic ... additive scoring can become strategic, and multiplicative is generally straight up. e.g. punting is a reasonable strategy with additive scoring, and very dangerous one with multiplicative (scoring a 1 or 2 in a category can be death to your team score).

    Comment


    • #3
      From SDS:

      It is a slow, serpentine draft, drafting a typical roto roster with typical roto categories for both CAREER and BEST YEAR (so, in essence, a 10x10 league). The difference is you must use different criterion to fill out your roster using the first letter of the a name (first name or last name) and decade. The thing is, you can only draft "that" letter once and can only draft from "that" decade once.

      So, if we were drafting first names, Yogi Berra might be a high pick because "Y"s are a scarce letter, good hitting catchers are less than plentiful and you choose the decade by the BY (say 1950... .322-28-124-116-4) but now all 1950's era hitters are off the board and can't draft any more "Y" named players but you do still need another catcher

      So Yogi is high pick, but Berra is a mid round pick because "B"s are more plentiful...

      It is a lot of fun for numbers driven people... and really gets fun when you need that 2nd catcher, but only have O - V - E - N - U - X - Z letter to choose from in in 1930's, 1870's, 1940... It gets a little harder to plug those holes lol

      Comment


      • #4
        From ELDiablo:

        A couple things for newer players to know:

        - I will probably bitch about how long someone is taking to pick at some point. Ignore me (hell, everyone else does).
        - If you take too long to pick or if you need a while to figure out who you're taking, the correct term is that you're picking "Irishly". This is a reference to Johnny's drunken countryman amcg, who participated in quite a few of these VDs and took forf*ckingever.
        - Both Johnny and Seitzer are REALLY good at this stupid game.
        - Just like a regular roto serpentine draft, knowing average draft position is a huge benefit. Once we decide the specific format, you can look at an older, completed draft and see who got taken where. Ignore where SDS or Heyelander took anyone but pay close attention to where Seitzer and Johnny made their picks.
        - It is extremely appropriate to talk tons of sh!t about Mr. Squidward's mom. Even if you have no idea who that guy is, you still should try to diss his mom at least once a week.
        - You must have strong feelings about toothpaste to participate.
        - If, while drafting, you pass any significant "number of posts" milestone, you must make reference to the Amish. To explain, if you are about to make post #1,000 you should probably say something like "Q: Why did the Amish woman leave her husband? A: He was driving her buggy." You can alternatively post pictures of Amish people doing super sweet stuff like this guy: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...apper.jpg/sr=1
        - The longest thread in the history of RotoJunkie was Vintage Draft #4. You are becoming part of history, kinda.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by johnnya24 View Post
          ERA Eligibility:

          Due to the uneven stats that are provided in certain era of baseball (Deadball Era, Modern "Juicing" Era), we put restrictions on the number of players that can be selected from these periods:

          Deadball Pitchers: 3 max
          Deadball Hitters: 3 max
          Modern Hitters: 3 max
          Modern Pitchers: 3 max
          For these purposes (and for my own edification), what are the generally accepted years for Deadball and Modern?

          Also, is trading during the draft permitted?
          "Igor, would you give me a hand with the bags?"
          "Certainly. You take the blonde and I'll take the one in the turban!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Long John View Post
            For these purposes (and for my own edification), what are the generally accepted years for Deadball and Modern?

            Also, is trading during the draft permitted?
            Good question ...

            Dead-Ball hitter is any hitter who played at all in 1898 or any season prior to 1898.
            Dead-Ball pitcher is any pitcher who pitched at all in 1913 or any season preceding 1913.
            Contemporary hitter is a hitter who played at all in 1999 or any season after 1999.
            Contemporary pitcher is a pitcher who played at all in 1999 or any season after 1999.

            Trading ... there is no trading in Vintage Baseball.
            Last edited by johnnya24; 01-09-2012, 01:38 AM. Reason: Updated with the accurate information

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by johnnya24 View Post

              Trading ... there is no trading in Vintage Baseball.
              I imagined Tom Hanks loudly proclaim that in an irritated tone as I read it.

              Another question. Of the 24 players, how many are at each position ? My old league used to be 23 so I imagine we add a pitcher or UT. Thanks for posting the old draft orders that helps a lot.

              EDIT- never mind P X 10 already posted above
              ---------------------------------------------
              Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
              ---------------------------------------------
              The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
              George Orwell, 1984

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                I imagined Tom Hanks loudly proclaim that in an irritated tone as I read it.

                Another question. Of the 24 players, how many are at each position ? My old league used to be 23 so I imagine we add a pitcher or UT. Thanks for posting the old draft orders that helps a lot.
                The full roster is in the first post of this thread ... and it was incorrect.

                You are right, there are only 23 roster slots. 14 hitting, and 9 pitching.

                EDIT to add ... we have uneven round numbers, so that the people who draft at the end of round 1, also get to draft last in then final round.
                Last edited by johnnya24; 01-08-2012, 12:59 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by johnnya24 View Post
                  Good question ... and I can't remember exactly ... NEED HELP!!!:

                  The following are approximates until we get the actual dates:

                  Deadball pitchers: any pitcher up to about 1919
                  Deadball Hitter: any hitter up to 1900 (I think!!)
                  Modern Hitter: any hitter after 1990
                  Modern Pitcher: any pitcher after 1990

                  HELP!

                  Trading ... there is no trading in Vintage Baseball.
                  I assume this restriction only applies to the season that is drafted ? So you could have another player who was in the deadball or modern era if you drafted one of the seasons that wasn't in the era (for example 1923 or 1989) ?
                  ---------------------------------------------
                  Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                  ---------------------------------------------
                  The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                  George Orwell, 1984

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Does positional elgibility for each player extend across years ? Or are they only elgible at a position in the year they played X number of games there ?
                    ---------------------------------------------
                    Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                    ---------------------------------------------
                    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                    George Orwell, 1984

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                      Does positional elgibility for each player extend across years ? Or are they only elgible at a position in the year they played X number of games there ?
                      There is a 200 game minimum requirement to be eligible for a position.

                      And 40 IP for pitchers

                      There are no Career minimums

                      The team IP is provisionally set at 17000 (I need to check and see how many pitcher were drafted with the 17000 IP limit). If it was more than 9, then we will have to reduce it a bit.
                      Last edited by johnnya24; 01-09-2012, 04:44 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I found the rules post, and have updated the Draft thread.

                        It seems complete.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by eldiablo505
                          Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                          I assume this restriction only applies to the season that is drafted ? So you could have another player who was in the deadball or modern era if you drafted one of the seasons that wasn't in the era (for example 1923 or 1989) ?
                          That's correct. The reason is that pitchers really, really dominated the game until about 1920 or so. Conversely, hitting has dominated since about 1987 or so but especially during the steroid years in the mid-late '90s and on.
                          That is actually not correct with regards the Letter rules. This is how the rule was applied with the decade restriction, but when we played with Letter restrictions, the rules were that a player is regarded as a Deadball or Contemporary if they played in any year during the restricted period.

                          This is a holdover from the fact that we did not start using "Best Year" until VD4. Prior to that we used Baseball-Reference's 162 Game Average stat, so we needed a fixed period ... and we never changed that except for the Decade drafts.

                          Maybe we changed this for one of the later Last Name drafts, but I don't remember if we did (I don't think so).
                          Last edited by johnnya24; 01-09-2012, 04:41 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by johnnya24 View Post
                            That is actually not correct with regards the Letter rules. This is how the rule was applied with the decade restriction, but when we played with Letter restrictions, the rules were that a player is regarded as a Deadball or Contemporary if they played in any year during the restricted period.

                            This is a holdover from the fact that we did not start using "Best Year" until VD4. Prior to that we used Baseball-Reference's 162 Game Average stat, so we needed a fixed period ... and we never changed that except for the Decade drafts.

                            Maybe we changed this for one of the later Last Name drafts, but I don't remember if we did (I don't think so).
                            So if I'm reading this and the rules correctly, Cal Ripken Jr and Tony Gwynn would be considered Contemporary players because they both didn't retire until after the 2001 season. Correct?
                            "Igor, would you give me a hand with the bags?"
                            "Certainly. You take the blonde and I'll take the one in the turban!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by johnnya24 View Post
                              This means that everyone will have to draft 24 players (hitters and pitchers), and they can only draft 1 player per letter of the alphabet. Once you have picked that letter, all other players from that letter will be off limits. So for instance, if I pick Barry Bonds in the first round, I can't pick another player whose last name starts with B: Lou Brock, Jeff Bagwell, Vida Blue, Charlie Buffington etc

                              Letter Rankings:

                              BCMSW: an abundance of players at these letters.

                              DGHR: reasonably strong

                              AFJKLPT: care needs to be taken with these letters

                              ENVO: these letters are weak

                              QUIZY: very weak (you only have to pick 3 players from QUIZY)
                              Last question: If we're drafting 24 players and we can only use each letter of the alphabet once, how can we only draft 3 players from QUIZY? With X out (I'm assuming there are no players with a last name beginning with X) you will have to pick 4 players from the QUIZY pool, no?
                              "Igor, would you give me a hand with the bags?"
                              "Certainly. You take the blonde and I'll take the one in the turban!"

                              Comment

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