#3000

[Bodhizefa]

I think Jeter was a very good player who was incredibly fortunate to be thrust into the perfect situation at exactly the right time. I can certainly see where Yankee fans believe him to be the best player in the last 35 years because he's represented the team and its success very admirably. But if you talk about the best players in that time period, there are a lot of players that pass the sniff test just as easily as Jeter (and perhaps even moreso). There's no way any New York fan can come in here and say with a straight face that they're not biased when they say Jeter is the best player they've ever seen.

[madducks]

Meanwhile A-Rod will get his 3,00th hit in 2013, a couple of days before the All-Star break and a couple of days after he begs out of the All-Star Game, collecting five hits including the game-winner plus a stolen base and a caught stealing.

No, ARod will have 2999 hits before the all-star break. Then, during the All-Star game a ruling will be announced on an error from two days before being changed to a hit for ARod. Then, as he likes to do, Arod will upstage the All-Star game by celebrating his 3000th hit on the field during the actual All-Star game.

[primetime]

No, ARod will have 2999 hits before the all-star break. Then, during the All-Star game a ruling will be announced on an error from two days before being changed to a hit for ARod. Then, as he likes to do, Arod will upstage the All-Star game by celebrating his 3000th hit on the field during the actual All-Star game.

Can we all at least agree that this was the best post in this thread, hands down?

[B-Fly]

Jeter has never been my favorite Yankee, in part because he's always seem so corporate, and in part because he was always the favorite Yankee of choice for women and children, etc. Of course, I'm a lifelong Yankee fan who has never lived outside of the NY area, so what follows comes with that caveat.

Baseball is a team sport. It's a team sport that more than any other team sport worships individual statistics. But when we look back in 20, 30, 50, 100 years, the players of this generation will be perceived based on a combination of factors including individual accomplishments, team accomplishments, cultural significance, etc. Derek Jeter is not the best individual baseball player of the last 30 years. The players who most stand out for their individual accomplishments are guys like Bonds, A-Rod, Griffey, Sosa, Manny, Pujols, Clemens, Maddux, R.Johnson, Pedro, Mariano. Of those, of course, only Mariano matches Jeter for team accomplishments, and Jeter has always had more cultural significance than Mo beyond the diamond. A lot of the guys on the list above, of course, also have PED clouds over their individual accomplishments, where Jeter does not.

So when it comes down to baseball history, I think Jeter has to be considered as potentially the most important non-tainted player of his era in MLB.

[Erik]

That's an understandable point. You can't write the history of this era without spending a significant amount of time on Jeter.

[mjl]

well sure, if you're going to say that the most important player by definition has to play for the Yankees since the Yankees won the most World Series, I can see that.

I think the best non-tainted player (not limiting to position player) of this generation is Greg Maddux. Maddux won four straight Cy Young awards and was clearly one of the best pitchers in the league for a long stretch in the 90s.

[senorsheep]

well sure, if you're going to say that the most important player by definition has to play for the Yankees since the Yankees won the most World Series, I can see that.

It's amusing to watch delusional Yankees fans gush about their self-created and self-perpetuating baseball Camelot, oblivious to to the objective realities that make their little fantasy possible. They're so immersed in it, and so invested in it, they can't even comprehend the world outside their fishbowl.

Jeter's "cultural significance" - LMAO. As if anybody outside of Yankees fanboys and East coast sports media fellators give a rip about that. If he spent his career as a Kansas City Royal, these clowns wouldn't give two sh!ts about Derek Jeter.

[The Dane]

I think the best non-tainted player (not limiting to position player) of this generation is Greg Maddux. Maddux won four straight Cy Young awards and was clearly one of the best pitchers in the league for a long stretch in the 90s.

Agreed. And, like Jeter, he was not really the most athletic, most flashy player. They have similar workmanlike approaches to their game.

[B-Fly]

It's amusing to watch delusional Yankees fans gush about their self-created and self-perpetuating baseball Camelot, oblivious to to the objective realities that make their little fantasy possible. They're so immersed in it, and so invested in it, they can't even comprehend the world outside their fishbowl.

Jeter's "cultural significance" - LMAO. As if anybody outside of Yankees fanboys and East coast sports media fellators give a rip about that. If he spent his career as a Kansas City Royal, these clowns wouldn't give two sh!ts about Derek Jeter.

It is what it is, though. During the mid-1970s, the Big Red Machine was the dominant team. Before them it was the Oakland A's. The players on those teams were more important in baseball history than similarly talented players on other teams. Just as in NBA history, the key players on the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls and Spurs teams that won multiple titles are more important to NBA history than similarly talented players on less successful teams. I don't have a problem with anyone saying that the Yankees have unfair advantages. It doesn't change the fact, however, that championship teams and their stars leave a more significant imprint on the history of the game.

[The Dane]

It is what it is, though. During the mid-1970s, the Big Red Machine was the dominant team. Before them it was the Oakland A's. The players on those teams were more important in baseball history than similarly talented players on other teams. Just as in NBA history, the key players on the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls and Spurs teams that won multiple titles are more important to NBA history than similarly talented players on less successful teams. I don't have a problem with anyone saying that the Yankees have unfair advantages. It doesn't change the fact, however, that championship teams and their stars leave a more significant imprint on the history of the game.

Very well said. The man is, in part, a product of his surroundings and opportunities and few players have ever taken advantage of them as well as Jeter has.

[senorsheep]

It is what it is, though. During the mid-1970s, the Big Red Machine was the dominant team. Before them it was the Oakland A's. The players on those teams were more important in baseball history than similarly talented players on other teams. Just as in NBA history, the key players on the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls and Spurs teams that won multiple titles are more important to NBA history than similarly talented players on less successful teams. I don't have a problem with anyone saying that the Yankees have unfair advantages. It doesn't change the fact, however, that championship teams and their stars leave a more significant imprint on the history of the game.

I have no problem with a Yankees fan saying anything you've said here, so long as they can fairly acknowledge that, unlike the Reds or the A's, their team achieves their "dominance" courtesy of the most ridiculous competitive advantage in the history of modern-day professional sports. You've always been willing to admit to this, so I don't lump you in with Yankees fans of the dopey "We're awesome because we have rings!" ilk.