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  • Terrible offers thread

    In an OBP dynasty league I got the following offer today:

    1) I give up Max Kepler (.369 OBP this year, he's not even doing poorly) and get Dylan Moore and a 4th round (not 4th overall, 4th round) FYPD pick next year.

    ... sure I'll just hand you Kepler for nothing, why not. That sounds really exciting to me.

  • #2
    One thing I try to keep in mind with bad trade offers is that owners are often putting out lowball offers expecting a counter.

    I've struggled with this. When I put out an offer, I usually try to present a fair deal, or something close enough to fair that it produces a counter offer. But I usually offer too much to start, so that the counter comes back lopsided.

    I just suck at trading. Sharing my observations.
    Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
      One thing I try to keep in mind with bad trade offers is that owners are often putting out lowball offers expecting a counter.

      I've struggled with this. When I put out an offer, I usually try to present a fair deal, or something close enough to fair that it produces a counter offer. But I usually offer too much to start, so that the counter comes back lopsided.

      I just suck at trading. Sharing my observations.
      Agree with you on all points. In most cases when I'm trying to draw a counter I try to give a trade that they will probably reject but at least has *some* reason that they might accept it.

      I'm terrible at creating trade offers though. I'm much better at looking at offers provided to me and discerning which way to go. But the hard work is creating offers.

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      • #4
        It is harder to come up with offers in leagues where you don't know the other people. In my league, I not only can look at rosters, assess needs, and make offers based on that, I have additional knowledge about biases and preferences other owners have. I know their home teams, which values consistency more, which overvalue youth and upside, who will pay up for a big name, even if the player is struggling, etc. But even with all that, I find there is an ebb and flow to trading. I find folks are more likely to trade before the season and toward the middle and end of the season. This time of year, I find it harder to get deals done. Many are still not sure about their team needs, are hesitant to trade a guy off to a fast or slow start and hesitant to trade for the same. We are now in that limbo state where everyone is not sure yet how to assess their teams and players.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
          One thing I try to keep in mind with bad trade offers is that owners are often putting out lowball offers expecting a counter.

          I've struggled with this. When I put out an offer, I usually try to present a fair deal, or something close enough to fair that it produces a counter offer. But I usually offer too much to start, so that the counter comes back lopsided.

          I just suck at trading. Sharing my observations.
          When I get a terrible trade offer, my first thought is "this guy has no sense of value and it's not worth countering."

          I only counter reasonable offers where we may just have a slight difference of opinion, not a massive, multi-round gulf.

          For instance, in my 16tm redraft early last week, I saw one team lost a catcher and had made multiple failed bids on catchers in the FAAB bid log. Just so happens I won both those catchers he bid on (Collins & Mejia). So I offered my other catcher, Zunino for Ober. He countered with Ober for Julio Rodriguez. This early in the year, I still use draft slot as a guide. I took JRod in the 9th, Zunino in the 19th, and he took Ober in the 16th. Sorry, but trading away a 9th rd pick for a 16th rd pick after a week is lunacy. I obviously passed and no further discussion was attempted.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ken View Post
            In an OBP dynasty league I got the following offer today:

            1) I give up Max Kepler (.369 OBP this year, he's not even doing poorly) and get Dylan Moore and a 4th round (not 4th overall, 4th round) FYPD pick next year.

            ... sure I'll just hand you Kepler for nothing, why not. That sounds really exciting to me.
            I would calmly ask him, help me to understand why I would want to do this deal, maybe I am missing something.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gregg View Post
              I would calmly ask him, help me to understand why I would want to do this deal, maybe I am missing something.
              Hey, Dylan Moore gets into a game every week or so!


              I have a guy who routinely makes terrible offers in my football league. When I ask him why I would want to do this, his response is always the same: I don't know if you like him or not, or, hey, just putting it out there!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by revo View Post
                Hey, Dylan Moore gets into a game every week or so!


                I have a guy who routinely makes terrible offers in my football league. When I ask him why I would want to do this, his response is always the same: I don't know if you like him or not, or, hey, just putting it out there!
                He is the guy that I might start making painfully lopsided offers to on an hourly basis starting with the statement I was thinking don't know if you like him or not, just putting it out there but how about...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gregg View Post
                  He is the guy that I might start making painfully lopsided offers to on an hourly basis starting with the statement I was thinking don't know if you like him or not, just putting it out there but how about...
                  This is how a few of us in my league handle a bad offer--retaliate with several even worse counters.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ken View Post
                    In an OBP dynasty league I got the following offer today:

                    1) I give up Max Kepler (.369 OBP this year, he's not even doing poorly) and get Dylan Moore and a 4th round (not 4th overall, 4th round) FYPD pick next year.

                    ... sure I'll just hand you Kepler for nothing, why not. That sounds really exciting to me.
                    Ken, I don't think you should take this one. It is not exciting.

                    Maybe you should just offer him your 10th round pick for his 4th round (no players). That would be exciting for you.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for starting this thread--I'd wanted to ask a couple of questions regarding Trades in redraft leagues. I've recently encountered the phrase--he's at value--while trading in season. Now I use value/salary estimations in deciding keepers in a trade in season and of course, off season and at the auction, but I've always approached in season, going for it trades as--does the player help me toward the title and can I fit the salary under my cap (if there is a cap) over, am I getting value from the player.

                      Have I been doing it wrong this whole time?

                      I do tend to overpay when I'm trading for players who might help me into the money, but I've never encountered someone who'd turn down a top tier player when trying to make their run because they are 'at value'.

                      I guess we're never too old to learn something new.
                      If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                      Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                      Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                      • #12
                        There's a guy in my league who sends out rediculous offers. To try to prove a point, I countered in the same rediculous fashion. Funny part is, he accepted one of my offers. My point being, if a guy has a crazy way to value players, he may over value your players too.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mike9289 View Post
                          There's a guy in my league who sends out rediculous offers. To try to prove a point, I countered in the same rediculous fashion. Funny part is, he accepted one of my offers. My point being, if a guy has a crazy way to value players, he may over value your players too.
                          I love it when I try to make my best fair offer and the counter is much worse than the offer I made.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
                            Thanks for starting this thread--I'd wanted to ask a couple of questions regarding Trades in redraft leagues. I've recently encountered the phrase--he's at value--while trading in season. Now I use value/salary estimations in deciding keepers in a trade in season and of course, off season and at the auction, but I've always approached in season, going for it trades as--does the player help me toward the title and can I fit the salary under my cap (if there is a cap) over, am I getting value from the player.

                            Have I been doing it wrong this whole time?

                            I do tend to overpay when I'm trading for players who might help me into the money, but I've never encountered someone who'd turn down a top tier player when trying to make their run because they are 'at value'.

                            I guess we're never too old to learn something new.
                            Redraft?

                            Maybe they mean that the price they paid for the player (draft round, auction price) is still where they see the underlying skills so they want to get back that same value. i.e. if I'm trading away Kyle Tucker I'm trading him very close to his original value that I bought him pre-season, I'd want a "first round" return. I'm not giving you a discount for me eating his bad luck streak if the skills still look solid.

                            That's the only thing I can think of that would equate to "at value" in a redraft setting.

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                            • #15
                              I'm usually just happy to see an offer...or a response to my offer. Low expectations
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