The new COVID thread

[nullnor]

Clearly we are going to find out if exposure to Omicron provides helpful long term immunity. I'm doubtful, but we can hope at least. And hope there isn't too much carnage.

you have to go back to the start and the basics why natural immunity (if you survive with no effects) is better than this particular vaccination. it only targets one protein or epitope of the virus. the spike protein, the part that docks with the cell. I don't know how many epitopes there are, there's the N or nucleocapsid and the E or envelope. and these are the things your immune system targets. in natural immunity it supposedly targets as many epitopes as it can. in this vaccine strategy we are only targeting one, and it's the one that mutates the most. which is why some efficacy is lost. but there is a reason why the spike was in fact, the best protein to target, if you were going to only target one. additionally, it's not determined how much natural immunity targets the proteins, but it does target some other epitopes or proteins. and those are more stable. hence longer immunity. and the natural infections rarely create side effects like severe antibody dependent enhancement, unless there is inappropriate cross antibody protection. which has never been proven or examined I think. in fact it more likely to be beneficial. there are studies now saying cross antibodies for common cold antibodies are bad for covid where others say the opposite.

it's about science. i'd wait a month and see if Omicron truly displaces Delta. then i'd run out and get infected with that shit once it is confirmed it attacks the upper respiratory system instead of the lethal lower one. and grab myself some natural immunity.

[The Feral Slasher]

you have to go back to the start and the basics why natural immunity (if you survive with no effects) is better than this particular vaccination. it only targets one protein or epitope of the virus. the spike protein, the part that docks with the cell. I don't know how many epitopes there are, there's the N or nucleocapsid and the E or envelope. and these are the things your immune system targets. in natural immunity it supposedly targets as many epitopes as it can. in this vaccine strategy we are only targeting one, and it's the one that mutates the most. which is why some efficacy is lost. but there is a reason why the spike was in fact, the best protein to target, if you were going to only target one. additionally, it's not determined how much natural immunity targets the proteins, but it does target some other epitopes or proteins. and those are more stable. hence longer immunity. and the natural infections rarely create side effects like severe antibody dependent enhancement, unless there is inappropriate cross antibody protection. which has never been proven or examined I think. in fact it more likely to be beneficial. there are studies now saying cross antibodies for common cold antibodies are bad for covid where others say the opposite.

it's about science. i'd wait a month and see if Omicron truly displaces Delta. then i'd run out and get infected with that shit once it is confirmed it attacks the upper respiratory system instead of the lethal lower one. and grab myself some natural immunity.

sorry, don't pretend you know more than doctors. quit with the bullshit.

[nullnor]

there are all kinds of charts coming out. it's like the wild west. I am one of the few ppl that can afford to wait. but I am running out of time. it's true I need to save my kitties and myself at the same time. i'll find out when the first place I apply to tell me I have to be vaccinated and I realize it will take months. even if the vaccine mandates get shot down, I would think most HVAC companies will require it.

[The Feral Slasher]

there are all kinds of charts coming out. it's like the wild west. I am one of the few ppl that can afford to wait. but I am running out of time. it's true I need to save my kitties and myself at the same time. i'll find out when the first place I apply to tell me I have to be vaccinated and I realize it will take months. even if the vaccine mandates get shot down, I would think most HVAC companies will require it.

if you are over 50 you can't afford to wait. All the data is completely clear. Don't pretend there is conflicting data. you are lying to yourself and everyone here. But we live in a free country so do whatever the fuck you want. Have a great weekend, hope you make a good decision to get vaccinated.

[nullnor]

the Dengue vaccine is a good example of the superiority sometimes of natural infection. you can only be vaccinated if you were infected first. it's because infection creates antibodies for all parts of the virus. even when a completely new version of Dengue comes out. there are 4 different types and it doesn't matter which 4 you were infected with first because natural infection is targeting an epitope of the virus that doesn't change. then after you get infected you can get vaccinated, which will then boost immunity.

[nullnor]

if you are over 50 you can't afford to wait. All the data is completely clear. Don't pretend there is conflicting data. you are lying to yourself and everyone here. But we live in a free country so do whatever the fuck you want. Have a great weekend, hope you make a good decision to get vaccinated.

ok. no problem. I am glad you are safe.

[The Feral Slasher]

ok. no problem. I am glad you are safe.

You too...hope you are healthy. Have a great weekend.

[johnnya24]

Clearly we are going to find out if exposure to Omicron provides helpful long term immunity. I'm doubtful, but we can hope at least. And hope there isn't too much carnage.

We both know that any kind of prior infection to a virus provides a degree of protection. The more your immune system is familiarized with a virus, the easier it will fight it off.

South Africa is the prime example. Vaccine uptake in SAF prior to Omicron was poor - average (lot's of vaccine skepticism). But they had 3 previous waves of Covid that caused widespread natural immunity - and the Omicron wave just bounced off SAF.

The resistance we saw in SAF to Omicron, despite its incredible infectiousness, came primarily from natural infection immunity. We have now seen that replicated in countries with high vaccine uptake and lower natural immunity.

Basically both vaccines and natural infection are providing similar degrees of protection - and although i'm not an expert, both vaccines and natural infection have their own particular ways of tutoring you immune system. They aren't exclusive.

-----------------------

Like I mentioned previously in this thread, there is a partisan mindset that has developed over the course of this pandemic (vrs the anti-science lobby) that is now a part of the problem.

Prior to Omicron:

Wear masks in public please vrs "aint no-one gonna make me do anything I don't want to"
Some restrictions to help protect our vulnerable vrs "you aint takin' away mah freedumb"
Vaccines will provide protection against the virus vrs "what virus? I don't know anyone who died from covid"
Any restrictions are temporary vrs "it's a global illuminati conspiracy to take all the power!!!!!!"
etc. etc.

It was annoying for all of us dealing with this imbecility. Problem is, after Omicron, many of those arguments we used are redundant. Once Omicron displaces Delta:

We shouldn't be wearing masks to prevent spread
We shouldn't have restrictions to stop infection, except in certain medical circumstances
Vaccine isn't our only solution / protection. With Omicron we now have a viable natural route to acquiring herd-immunity that will be faster and perhaps as (more?) effective than vaccines.
We therefore don't need restrictions in the same way as prior waves.

However, because of pride, stubbornness, pride, an overly conservative mindset, pride, a lack of courageousness, pride, conditional partisan herd behavior etc. etc. - most of us don't seem to be able to extricate ourselves from this partisan conditionality.

AND - we could miss this window of opportunity for fast and effective herd-immunity if another wave comes along and we haven't allowed Omicron the freedom it needs (a) to infect the dumbasses and (b) give additional protection to the vaccinated.

[GwynnInTheHall]

i'm not an expert,

This is all you really need to say.

[johnnya24]

This is all you really need to say.

... and that is all you need to say in response.

[Teenwolf]

Gee, I wouldn't want to miss this great doorknob licking opportunity I'm being presented with.

Insisting everybody should GET Covid in order to PROTECT from Covid is just about the dumbest idea I can imagine.

How many of the Omicron cases are resulting in "long-Covid", which I've heard is quite debilitating? No idea. Let's just let the entire world catch the virus, if 10-20% are left disabled after, no bother, right?

Have you heard that Omicron is actually putting more children in hospital than previous variants? Are they just collateral damage?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/child...cron-1.6305207

Kids and teens — and even newborns — are now among the rising number of Canadians being hospitalized with COVID-19 as Omicron infections keep surging across the country to unprecedented levels.

Multiple hospitals recently began seeing an uptick in young patients infected with the coronavirus, CBC News has learned, including some of the country's largest pediatric facilities in British Columbia, Ontario, and Quebec.

And on Wednesday, several Ontario hospitals issued a public service announcement stating that between two pediatric sites in Ottawa and Hamilton, six infants had been hospitalized for COVID-19 infections since mid-December, despite the previous rarity of infant admissions.

[johnnya24]

I mean look at this thread FFS. A few comments per day of useful information / interaction ... then Nully spews some typical Nully nonsense and 30 posts of pointless back-and-forth partisan foaming-at-the-mouth crap.

It's like most of you only care about winning some pointless argument you've had a thousand times over.

[johnnya24]

Gee, I wouldn't want to miss this great doorknob licking opportunity I'm being presented with.

Insisting everybody should GET Covid in order to PROTECT from Covid is just about the dumbest idea I can imagine.

How many of the Omicron cases are resulting in "long-Covid", which I've heard is quite debilitating? No idea. Let's just let the entire world catch the virus, if 10-20% are left disabled after, no bother, right?

Have you heard that Omicron is actually putting more children in hospital than previous variants? Are they just collateral damage?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/child...cron-1.6305207

How collateral damage if it will happen one way or the other? That sounds like blame insulation. What do you think hospitalizations will look like if we get another Delta-like wave?

We are all catching this disease bro, probably numerous times in our life - as with influenza / colds etc. It's part of our life cycle now - there's no hiding from it - and there is no silver-bullet that we can fire and make Covid poof. I wish there was.

Using long-Covid as an argument is a bit disingenuous if we are all going to catch this disease repeatedly. Hopefully long-Covid is an effect of the more severe early strains. Either way, we will all have to roll the dice on all aspects of Covid numerous times in our lives.

Personally I think we should roll the dice when the odds are in our favour, but hey that's just me apparently. Omicron is clearly and unquestionably a favourable variant (for us) compared to Beta, Gamma, Delta, and the original strain. All the data points in that direction.

What are we waiting for, a variant of Covid that makes our farts smell of lavender?

Because odds are that the next strain will follow the path of the previous more harmful strains. Omicron is a bit of an aberration if you look at the genetic lineage. It evolved from the original strain in isolation in Africa, then appeared out of the blue. We are actually very lucky to get Omicron.

[Teenwolf]

How collateral damage if it will happen one way or the other? That sounds like blame insulation. What do you think hospitalizations will look like if we get another Delta-like wave?

We are all catching this disease bro, probably numerous times in our life - as with influenza / colds etc. It's part of our life cycle now - there's no hiding from it - and there is no silver-bullet that we can fire and make Covid poof. I wish there was.

Using long-Covid as an argument is a bit disingenuous if we are all going to catch this disease repeatedly. Hopefully long-Covid is an effect of the more severe early strains. Either way, we will all have to roll the dice on all aspects of Covid numerous times in our lives.

Personally I think we should roll the dice when the odds are in our favour, but hey that's just me apparently. Omicron is clearly and unquestionably a favourable variant (for us) compared to Beta, Gamma, Delta, and the original strain. All the data points in that direction.

What are we waiting for, a variant of Covid that makes our farts smell of lavender?

Because odds are that the next strain will follow the path of the previous more harmful strains. Omicron is a bit of an aberration if you look at the genetic lineage. It evolved from the original strain in isolation in Africa, then appeared out of the blue. We are actually very lucky to get Omicron.

Well, you didn't answer to the children. Kind of an important part of the equation.

Kids under 5 should all be forcibly given Covid, only the strong survive. They don't have a choice to get a vaccine, so what the fuck? You condemn them to a dice-roll?

I disagree with your approach.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I mean look at this thread FFS. A few comments per day of useful information / interaction ... then Nully spews some typical Nully nonsense and 30 posts of pointless back-and-forth partisan foaming-at-the-mouth crap.

It's like most of you only care about winning some pointless argument you've had a thousand times over.

Are you talking to me or someone else?