The new COVID thread

[johnnya24]

For me, it's not partisan--I'm on the side that saves the most lives--No matter the financial cost or inconvenience. I understand it's close to impossible to have it handled in the manner I believe is best--humans just are not built to give up money/stuff or be inconvenienced for too long or in some cases at all. The fact the Pandemic wasn't handled correctly worldwide from the beginning has put mankind in this position and we really ARE in this together.

I'm hoping this slows and ends soon as you do, but I'm not ready to just give up and say let's go herd immunity, nor do I think I ever will be as to me. that process will cost lives that might be saved through stringent (inconvenient-costly) mitigation policies and measures.

I prefer the way New Zealand, Australia and even China have handled it over how the US and UK have gone about it.

BUT I don't live there so I can only handle what I can handle and that's stay home when I can, mask when I leave, get vaxxed and boostered when possible and encourage people to do the same.


No need to ignore you, just clarifying your post and we're all weary of this shit, so don't feel like you're alone--It's just some of us have given up the fight yet. I believe that's the pushback you're feeling.

Stay Safe and Be Well.

Hopefully we're on the downward slope out of this pandemic.

Omicron will hopefully do for the anti-vaxxers, what reason and common sense couldn't ... if they get sick, that's on them (and MJ's wife )

[johnnya24]

I admittedly have not followed every nuance of Johnny's argument on here, but trying to get Omicron on purpose seems really stupid. I understand the idea of getting your three shots and then not being paralyzed by fear in going about life, with the understanding that getting Omicron after three shots is likely way better than getting Delta with no shots. It seems like Johnny is saying that he thinks the immunity conferred from getting the disease is good for the rest of time against future variants of COVID, but the data seems to show otherwise. The vaccines confer stronger and more lasting immunity than getting the disease itself. So why would one want to choose to get both the disease and weaker immunity against getting it again? If I have to get a booster shot for COVID every 6 or 12 months for the rest of my life, it wouldn't be my favorite thing, but I'd rather do that than get COVID while unprotected by a vaccine.

Not saying you should go out and get Omicron on purpose, but also not saying you should be worried about catching it ... and it's so infectious, it's probably a moot point.

I never made a point about the efficacy of vaccines verses natural infection. Merely stated that, in general, vaccine-immunity and natural-infection-immunity both tend to provide protection against future infection. The UK/Netherlands did well against Covid with primarily vaccine immunity; South Africa did well with primarily natural-infection-immunity.

Personally, now that I've been vaccinated (and boosted), I'd rather deal with the virus naturally. Unless a particularly dangerous strain emerges, I'm not planning to get further boosters.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Not saying you should go out and get Omicron on purpose, but also not saying you should be worried about catching it ... and it's so infectious, it's probably a moot point.

I never made a point about the efficacy of vaccines verses natural infection. Merely stated that, in general, vaccine-immunity and natural-infection-immunity both tend to provide protection against future infection. The UK/Netherlands did well against Covid with primarily vaccine immunity; South Africa did well with primarily natural-infection-immunity.

Personally, now that I've been vaccinated (and boosted), I'd rather deal with the virus naturally. Unless a particularly dangerous strain emerges, I'm not planning to get further boosters.

But you're not dealing with the Virus naturally, you've been immunized.

PLUS, the chances of getting and adverse reaction or serious health issues are FAR greater if you get the virus vs getting the vaccine. And I believe THAT is the flaw in your argument.

[johnnya24]

But you're not dealing with the Virus naturally, you've been immunized.

PLUS, the chances of getting and adverse reaction or serious health issues are FAR greater if you get the virus vs getting the vaccine. And I believe THAT is the flaw in your argument.

Not sure what you saying with that final point, and not sure how that relates to some argument that I'm making?

Obviously if you are vaccinated you will have much fewer health issues if you come into contact with Covid. When have I said otherwise?

Are you drawing a vaccine verses natural infection comparison? If so, I think the South Africa data clearly shows that natural infection immunity provides adequate protection. South Africa has dealt with 3 previous waves, and large swaths of their population were exposed to the original strain, as well as Beta and Delta. They brushed off Omicron fairly easily with only a 25% vaccination rate, and without any heads-up - It was everywhere before they even realized.

Not getting the vaccine is pretty stupid, and a sad indictment of the standard of education in our society. By the same token, I think vaccine mandates for people who have been previously infected are unnecessary. If they don't want the extra free protection afforded by vaccines, then that'll be their cross to bear if it bites them in the ass. A lot of this discussion seems more political and emotional to me, and I'm not interested in that stuff.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Not sure what you saying with that final point, and not sure how that relates to some argument that I'm making?

Obviously if you are vaccinated you will have much fewer health issues if you come into contact with Covid. When have I said otherwise?

Are you drawing a vaccine verses natural infection comparison? If so, I think the South Africa data clearly shows that natural infection immunity provides adequate protection. South Africa has dealt with 3 previous waves, and large swaths of their population were exposed to the original strain, as well as Beta and Delta. They brushed off Omicron fairly easily with only a 25% vaccination rate, and without any heads-up - It was everywhere before they even realized.

Not getting the vaccine is pretty stupid, and a sad indictment of the standard of education in our society. By the same token, I think vaccine mandates for people who have been previously infected are unnecessary. If they don't want the extra free protection afforded by vaccines, then that'll be their cross to bear if it bites them in the ass. A lot of this discussion seems more political and emotional to me, and I'm not interested in that stuff.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be selling that 'getting' Covid is equal to getting the vaccine. That Omicron is a chance for the Unvaxxed to gain the immunity of the vaccine without the Jab, which may be true--but you're leaving out the most important part of the equation in that Covid, if infected by it, can harm/kill you in far greater numbers than the Vaccine.

That alone tells us it is NOT equal.

You say you're only talking about the POST vaccine/infection immunity then you throw out the canard of SA showing natural immunity AND though you say vaccine mandates for those who've been infected are unnecessary, you are OK with people who've been vaccinated getting the virus as it should provide "super immunity"--a bit inconsistent from my perspective. If you're ok with one, you should be OK with both.

You also seem to be against mandates. Period. But that's the issue and HAS been the issue and IS one of the greatest factors which has led us to where we are.

People can and will be selfish and sometimes need to be told what to do and should they choose not to comply, hit with a consequence severe enough to force them to comply or make their choice as costly as the lives they're risking but NOT complying.

It's a pretty simple concept, don't drive drunk or else--don't speed or else. Don't smoke in share spaces or else.

Get the Jab or else.

It saves lives and again--Either you think Both having covid/getting vaxxed AND getting vaxxed and then having covid are good ideas or they're not. But to be OK with One (getting vaxxed, then infected) while stating that the previously infected shouldn't be forced to get vaxxed, is again from my perspective--Incongruent and why people are pushing back on your posts.

Finally, you say that if they choose NOT to vax after getting the virus, that's their cross to bear--that's wrong--if they can still be re-infected (which they can) that cross impacts everyone around them. If you're not doing everything you can to help mitigate transmission of this virus, you're not doing enough.

As I've said before--we're in this together--it's time to put aside your personal shit and think of others.

It's not political, but it's definitely personal/emotional because I've lost and no many of those close to me who've lost people to this thing. So, I have NO patience for anyone NOT doing whatever they can whenever they can to help end this.

[madducks]

The booster made me sick (slight fever, slight headache, body aches, sore throat). So did the second shot (severe fever, chills, severe headache). I'm still glad that I got them. But I'm not so sure that I want any future boosters. I've only called off work twice in the last four years. And both times it was after a COVID shot.

[madducks]

Also, my 53 year-old anti-vax cousin got COVID recently and had to be hospitalized. Luckily, she only had to stay in the hospital for one day and is now recovering.

[johnnya24]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be selling that 'getting' Covid is equal to getting the vaccine. That Omicron is a chance for the Unvaxxed to gain the immunity of the vaccine without the Jab, which may be true--but you're leaving out the most important part of the equation in that Covid, if infected by it, can harm/kill you in far greater numbers than the Vaccine.

That alone tells us it is NOT equal.

You say you're only talking about the POST vaccine/infection immunity then you throw out the canard of SA showing natural immunity AND though you say vaccine mandates for those who've been infected are unnecessary, you are OK with people who've been vaccinated getting the virus as it should provide "super immunity"--a bit inconsistent from my perspective. If you're ok with one, you should be OK with both.

You also seem to be against mandates. Period. But that's the issue and HAS been the issue and IS one of the greatest factors which has led us to where we are.

People can and will be selfish and sometimes need to be told what to do and should they choose not to comply, hit with a consequence severe enough to force them to comply or make their choice as costly as the lives they're risking but NOT complying.

It's a pretty simple concept, don't drive drunk or else--don't speed or else. Don't smoke in share spaces or else.

Get the Jab or else.

It saves lives and again--Either you think Both having covid/getting vaxxed AND getting vaxxed and then having covid are good ideas or they're not. But to be OK with One (getting vaxxed, then infected) while stating that the previously infected shouldn't be forced to get vaxxed, is again from my perspective--Incongruent and why people are pushing back on your posts.

Finally, you say that if they choose NOT to vax after getting the virus, that's their cross to bear--that's wrong--if they can still be re-infected (which they can) that cross impacts everyone around them. If you're not doing everything you can to help mitigate transmission of this virus, you're not doing enough.

As I've said before--we're in this together--it's time to put aside your personal shit and think of others.

It's not political, but it's definitely personal/emotional because I've lost and no many of those close to me who've lost people to this thing. So, I have NO patience for anyone NOT doing whatever they can whenever they can to help end this.

Never said "equal" at any point (nor "super immunity" for that matter). I believe the last word I used was "adequate", before that "beneficial". You go right ahead and argue with yourself. I couldn't give 2 fucks if the vaccine is better or worse than natural-infection-immunity. They are both clearly helpful, that's "sufficient" in my book - there's another word for you to misuse. Obviously as a vaccine extremist, that isn't adequate or sufficient for you. At this point you're clearly nothing more than a reactionary slave to the anti-vax agenda.

So I guess that's 90% of that pointless rant addressed. The rest is just mindless apoplectic ranting.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I don't appreciate it. If you don't have to courtesy to even attempt to read what I say, then in future don't expect me to have the courtesy to answer you.

[Bene Futuis]

The booster made me sick (slight fever, slight headache, body aches, sore throat). So did the second shot (severe fever, chills, severe headache). I'm still glad that I got them. But I'm not so sure that I want any future boosters. I've only called off work twice in the last four years. And both times it was after a COVID shot.

In addition to protecting yourself, you are doing a service to others, particularly those most vulnerable, as research shows that vaccinated people do not spread COVID as readily as do the unvaccinated. I don't think anyone wants any boosters but I firmly believe it's the right thing to do, if not for yourself then for those who cannot protect themselves.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Never said "equal" at any point (nor "super immunity" for that matter). I believe the last word I used was "adequate", before that "beneficial". You go right ahead and argue with yourself. I couldn't give 2 fucks if the vaccine is better or worse than natural-infection-immunity. They are both clearly helpful, that's "sufficient" in my book - there's another word for you to misuse. Obviously as a vaccine extremist, that isn't adequate or sufficient for you. At this point you're clearly nothing more than a reactionary slave to the anti-vax agenda.

So I guess that's 90% of that pointless rant addressed. The rest is just mindless apoplectic ranting.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I don't appreciate it. If you don't have to courtesy to even attempt to read what I say, then in future don't expect me to have the courtesy to answer you.

I didn't say you said the word "equal" I said you're selling the concept of "equal" which you are from my perspective. Others seem to be reading the same thing, it could just be a communication/comprehension thing on one or both our parts.

I'm not apoplectic--I'm direct. You see Rant, I see speaking frankly. I'm not arguing with you, I'm telling you what the words you've written say to me. I read what you say, to me, you seem vacillate back and forth between saying you're in support of mitigation efforts and criticizing them and yes, I see mandates as mitigation efforts, because they are. I'm not the only one who sees this which is why you've gotten pushback from several people in here--Not just me.

I'm not a "Vax Extremist" I'm following the science which has laid out the BEST way to mitigate this virus--Vaccinate, Mask and Distance. If you don't have a legitimate health issue that prevents you from following these simple steps, there is NO excuse NOT to do all these things--None.

Reactionary Slave, Anti vax Agenda, Vaccine Extremist, Apoplectic, Pointless.

Those are your words, pretty telling.

But not as telling as these: "I couldn't give 2 fucks'

Have a nice day and stay safe.

[Moonlight J]

My card with Pfizer:
1st - late March 2021
2nd - mid April 2021
Booster - mid November 2021

went to bed feeling like I had done a four-hour workout at the gym (I hadn't), woke up feeling the same. Failed a rapid home test with a really pale blue line, so awaiting results from a rapid test at CVS taken this morning.

I've been rigid in precautionary actions when out in public with only unmasking happening if I'm actively eating or drinking inside now that the weather has gotten much colder over the past week.

Had tickets to Jason Isbell tomorrow night and a trip to FL scheduled Tuesday

[The Feral Slasher]

My card with Pfizer:
1st - late March 2021
2nd - mid April 2021
Booster - mid November 2021

went to bed feeling like I had done a four-hour workout at the gym (I hadn't), woke up feeling the same. Failed a rapid home test with a really pale blue line, so awaiting results from a rapid test at CVS taken this morning.

I've been rigid in precautionary actions when out in public with only unmasking happening if I'm actively eating or drinking inside now that the weather has gotten much colder over the past week.

Had tickets to Jason Isbell tomorrow night and a trip to FL scheduled Tuesday

Hope you feel better soon

[Sour Masher]

In addition to protecting yourself, you are doing a service to others, particularly those most vulnerable, as research shows that vaccinated people do not spread COVID as readily as do the unvaccinated. I don't think anyone wants any boosters but I firmly believe it's the right thing to do, if not for yourself then for those who cannot protect themselves.

The most right thing to do globally is ensure the remaining 38% of the world population that is unvaccinated gets vaccinated, especially the many in poorer countries that want to be vaccinated, but have not been, before moving on to boosters that do next to nothing for individuals under the age of 50. Doing that could save hundreds of thousands of lives.

But I understand that it doesn't work that way, and that foregoing boosters we have the privilege to have available to us will not help the unvaccinated get vaccinated. Helping stop the spread to more vulnerable people is a good thing, although, depressingly, the window within which that benefit is had seems very small--just a couple of months. I'm hopeful that new vaccines will be developed that provide longer and more complete protection to Omicron, which I hope stays the dominant variant. The talk of a one shot for COVID and flu that you could take once a year is promising. I hope it comes to fruition. The current boosters are just not very good at stopping the spread of Omicron, as the surge shows. We do seem to be on the downward side of the slope now, though, so I hope the worst will be over soon. And I've seen some recent data that suggests those that recovery from Omicron should have robust immunity. So, I sure how the mortality rates continue to fall as more and more people have more and more protection.

[Ken]

The most right thing to do globally is ensure the remaining 38% of the world population that is unvaccinated gets vaccinated, especially the many in poorer countries that want to be vaccinated, but have not been, before moving on to boosters that do next to nothing for individuals under the age of 50. Doing that could save hundreds of thousands of lives.

I wonder what % of that 38% is interested in vaccination?

[Sour Masher]

I wonder what % of that 38% is interested in vaccination?

This is a good article that covers some of the difficulties many continue to have trying to get vaccinated: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-the-only-issu

In Yemen, for instance, the vaccine is not available in the north, and those that live there would have to travel south, driving 15-20 hours through a war zone, and not be guaranteed a shot when they got there. The vaccination rate in Yemen is less than 2%. I'm sure a lot of the folks that live there and the other 36 countries with vaccination rates under 10% would love to have the access to vaccines many in the US fight against having--those numbers are a product of those countries not be prioritized. I can't find enough data to make a good guess, but I'd wager at least half of that 38% worldwide would be vaccinated by now if they had easy access and proper education on the benefits. That is globally. Of course, here anyone who wanted to get vaxxed could have by now, and we are all much safer for it.