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Thread: The new COVID thread

  1. #581
    Journeyman Teenwolf's Avatar
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    Gee, I wouldn't want to miss this great doorknob licking opportunity I'm being presented with.

    Insisting everybody should GET Covid in order to PROTECT from Covid is just about the dumbest idea I can imagine.

    How many of the Omicron cases are resulting in "long-Covid", which I've heard is quite debilitating? No idea. Let's just let the entire world catch the virus, if 10-20% are left disabled after, no bother, right?

    Have you heard that Omicron is actually putting more children in hospital than previous variants? Are they just collateral damage?

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/child...cron-1.6305207

    Quote Originally Posted by CBC News
    Kids and teens ó and even newborns ó are now among the rising number of Canadians being hospitalized with COVID-19 as Omicron infections keep surging across the country to unprecedented levels.

    Multiple hospitals recently began seeing an uptick in young patients infected with the coronavirus, CBC News has learned, including some of the country's largest pediatric facilities in British Columbia, Ontario, and Quebec.

    And on Wednesday, several Ontario hospitals issued a public service announcement stating that between two pediatric sites in Ottawa and Hamilton, six infants had been hospitalized for COVID-19 infections since mid-December, despite the previous rarity of infant admissions.
    "My favourite is when Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi say "we need a strong Republican party." And I'm like, "um, well, I donít. Not sure why you do." And then I realized why they do need a strong Republican party. Because if there was no Republican party, even if you were a fan of the Democrats, you would be like "hey, now what's holding you back from doing good policy if there's no opposition?" Because they'd be revealed as frauds." - Judah Friedlander

  2. #582
    Hall of Famer johnnya24's Avatar
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    I mean look at this thread FFS. A few comments per day of useful information / interaction ... then Nully spews some typical Nully nonsense and 30 posts of pointless back-and-forth partisan foaming-at-the-mouth crap.

    It's like most of you only care about winning some pointless argument you've had a thousand times over.

  3. #583
    Hall of Famer johnnya24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teenwolf View Post
    Gee, I wouldn't want to miss this great doorknob licking opportunity I'm being presented with.

    Insisting everybody should GET Covid in order to PROTECT from Covid is just about the dumbest idea I can imagine.

    How many of the Omicron cases are resulting in "long-Covid", which I've heard is quite debilitating? No idea. Let's just let the entire world catch the virus, if 10-20% are left disabled after, no bother, right?

    Have you heard that Omicron is actually putting more children in hospital than previous variants? Are they just collateral damage?

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/child...cron-1.6305207
    How collateral damage if it will happen one way or the other? That sounds like blame insulation. What do you think hospitalizations will look like if we get another Delta-like wave?

    We are all catching this disease bro, probably numerous times in our life - as with influenza / colds etc. It's part of our life cycle now - there's no hiding from it - and there is no silver-bullet that we can fire and make Covid poof. I wish there was.

    Using long-Covid as an argument is a bit disingenuous if we are all going to catch this disease repeatedly. Hopefully long-Covid is an effect of the more severe early strains. Either way, we will all have to roll the dice on all aspects of Covid numerous times in our lives.

    Personally I think we should roll the dice when the odds are in our favour, but hey that's just me apparently. Omicron is clearly and unquestionably a favourable variant (for us) compared to Beta, Gamma, Delta, and the original strain. All the data points in that direction.

    What are we waiting for, a variant of Covid that makes our farts smell of lavender?

    Because odds are that the next strain will follow the path of the previous more harmful strains. Omicron is a bit of an aberration if you look at the genetic lineage. It evolved from the original strain in isolation in Africa, then appeared out of the blue. We are actually very lucky to get Omicron.

  4. #584
    Journeyman Teenwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnya24 View Post
    How collateral damage if it will happen one way or the other? That sounds like blame insulation. What do you think hospitalizations will look like if we get another Delta-like wave?

    We are all catching this disease bro, probably numerous times in our life - as with influenza / colds etc. It's part of our life cycle now - there's no hiding from it - and there is no silver-bullet that we can fire and make Covid poof. I wish there was.

    Using long-Covid as an argument is a bit disingenuous if we are all going to catch this disease repeatedly. Hopefully long-Covid is an effect of the more severe early strains. Either way, we will all have to roll the dice on all aspects of Covid numerous times in our lives.

    Personally I think we should roll the dice when the odds are in our favour, but hey that's just me apparently. Omicron is clearly and unquestionably a favourable variant (for us) compared to Beta, Gamma, Delta, and the original strain. All the data points in that direction.

    What are we waiting for, a variant of Covid that makes our farts smell of lavender?

    Because odds are that the next strain will follow the path of the previous more harmful strains. Omicron is a bit of an aberration if you look at the genetic lineage. It evolved from the original strain in isolation in Africa, then appeared out of the blue. We are actually very lucky to get Omicron.
    Well, you didn't answer to the children. Kind of an important part of the equation.

    Kids under 5 should all be forcibly given Covid, only the strong survive. They don't have a choice to get a vaccine, so what the fuck? You condemn them to a dice-roll?

    I disagree with your approach.
    "My favourite is when Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi say "we need a strong Republican party." And I'm like, "um, well, I donít. Not sure why you do." And then I realized why they do need a strong Republican party. Because if there was no Republican party, even if you were a fan of the Democrats, you would be like "hey, now what's holding you back from doing good policy if there's no opposition?" Because they'd be revealed as frauds." - Judah Friedlander

  5. #585
    All Star GwynnInTheHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnya24 View Post
    I mean look at this thread FFS. A few comments per day of useful information / interaction ... then Nully spews some typical Nully nonsense and 30 posts of pointless back-and-forth partisan foaming-at-the-mouth crap.

    It's like most of you only care about winning some pointless argument you've had a thousand times over.
    Are you talking to me or someone else?
    If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #586
    Journeyman nullnor's Avatar
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    I'm an expert. I just watched an animal husbandry marathon on Sling TV.

    Stand back everyone, this mare has covid toe! I am going to need some toenail clippers, smooth udder cream and a tuna on rye.

  7. #587
    MVP The Feral Slasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnya24 View Post
    We both know that any kind of prior infection to a virus provides a degree of protection. The more your immune system is familiarized with a virus, the easier it will fight it off.

    South Africa is the prime example. Vaccine uptake in SAF prior to Omicron was poor - average (lot's of vaccine skepticism). But they had 3 previous waves of Covid that caused widespread natural immunity - and the Omicron wave just bounced off SAF.

    The resistance we saw in SAF to Omicron, despite its incredible infectiousness, came primarily from natural infection immunity. We have now seen that replicated in countries with high vaccine uptake and lower natural immunity.

    Basically both vaccines and natural infection are providing similar degrees of protection - and although i'm not an expert, both vaccines and natural infection have their own particular ways of tutoring you immune system. They aren't exclusive.

    -----------------------

    Like I mentioned previously in this thread, there is a partisan mindset that has developed over the course of this pandemic (vrs the anti-science lobby) that is now a part of the problem.

    Prior to Omicron:

    Wear masks in public please vrs "aint no-one gonna make me do anything I don't want to"
    Some restrictions to help protect our vulnerable vrs "you aint takin' away mah freedumb"
    Vaccines will provide protection against the virus vrs "what virus? I don't know anyone who died from covid"
    Any restrictions are temporary vrs "it's a global illuminati conspiracy to take all the power!!!!!!"
    etc. etc.

    It was annoying for all of us dealing with this imbecility. Problem is, after Omicron, many of those arguments we used are redundant. Once Omicron displaces Delta:

    We shouldn't be wearing masks to prevent spread
    We shouldn't have restrictions to stop infection, except in certain medical circumstances
    Vaccine isn't our only solution / protection. With Omicron we now have a viable natural route to acquiring herd-immunity that will be faster and perhaps as (more?) effective than vaccines.
    We therefore don't need restrictions in the same way as prior waves.

    However, because of pride, stubbornness, pride, an overly conservative mindset, pride, a lack of courageousness, pride, conditional partisan herd behavior etc. etc. - most of us don't seem to be able to extricate ourselves from this partisan conditionality.

    AND - we could miss this window of opportunity for fast and effective herd-immunity if another wave comes along and we haven't allowed Omicron the freedom it needs (a) to infect the dumbasses and (b) give additional protection to the vaccinated.
    I understand that Omicron will provide some level of immunity. It is impossible to define how much and for long it will last. I also know that based on age, poor health, unvaccinated, etc Omicron will kill some people and send many to the hospital. So not being able to define the benefit that some people would receive makes me reluctant to recommend actions that will have very real and immediate costs. There are also costs to the restrictions/shut downs on normal activities such as school, restaurant, entertainment, etc. I don't think there is an obvious answer as to what is the right thing to do in terms of closures/school shut downs, etc..for areas that are experiencing extreme Omicron spread. I do think we need a functioning healthcare system and Omicron has the potential to create lots of issues there.

    EDIT: added link below. Discusses the potential benefits and uncertainty related to Omicron

    https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...ont-bet-on-it/
    Last edited by The Feral Slasher; 01-08-2022 at 08:32 PM.
    ---------------------------------------------------------

    -put it in the pantry with your cupcakes

  8. #588
    Journeyman nullnor's Avatar
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    I was looking at these graphs and the anti-vaccine side is trying to say vaccine efficacy is negative but I don't see it. what it looks like to me is since there are more vaccinated ppl they will represent more cases of testing positive. we learned this earlier from Israel since they had a higher uptake. same thing with <18 representing a larger chare of positive since more are unvaccinated. but in the last graph you can see that the unvaccinated represent the greater proportion of deaths. thus, it is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. even though I dislike that term.








  9. #589
    All Star Kevin Seitzer's Avatar
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    COIVD hospitalizations are near their peak from last January. Deaths have not risen that much yet, but we know from previous waves that the rise in deaths lags the rise in hospitalizations by a couple weeks.
    "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

  10. #590
    Hall of Famer johnnya24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
    I understand that Omicron will provide some level of immunity. It is impossible to define how much and for long it will last. I also know that based on age, poor health, unvaccinated, etc Omicron will kill some people and send many to the hospital. So not being able to define the benefit that some people would receive makes me reluctant to recommend actions that will have very real and immediate costs. There are also costs to the restrictions/shut downs on normal activities such as school, restaurant, entertainment, etc. I don't think there is an obvious answer as to what is the right thing to do in terms of closures/school shut downs, etc..for areas that are experiencing extreme Omicron spread. I do think we need a functioning healthcare system and Omicron has the potential to create lots of issues there.

    EDIT: added link below. Discusses the potential benefits and uncertainty related to Omicron

    https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...ont-bet-on-it/
    (not trying to be argumentative, but) you seem to be trapped in a negative mindset. Most vaccine and infection immunity is beneficial against further infection. Should the question not be: what evidence do you have that this will be any different?

    Realistically the only thing we can do is manage the scale of work absences during the peak, and keep the wheels turning. That is what is causing most of the pressure, not admissions as a consequence of the virus itself. Everything is happening around the world as predicted - mirroring South Africa ... sadly also the lackadaisical response of our governing agencies.

    It would be unfortunate if countries/regions yet to go through this Omicron phase of the pandemic (hopefully the final phase) don't learn from the UK, Netherlands etc and other early waves. We have only recently reduced isolation time to 5 days ... this could have been done 3 weeks ago.

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