The new COVID thread

[Bene Futuis]

Republicans growing an alliance with the anti-vaxxers: https://www.npr.org/2021/12/06/10573...mp-republicans

.....which leads to:

People in pro-Trump areas nearly three times more likely to die from COVID-19: NPR analysis: https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...-likely-to-die

[johnnya24]

Dr. John Campbell, while technically a doctor, is a doctor of nursing with no training in any of the stuff that matters on this topic. From his wiki: "John L. Campbell is a British social media influencer and retired nurse who achieved attention during the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic for his explanatory videos and updates on the virus."

I'm sure his videos are just fine and dandy but, again, he's just a nurse. He does seem occasionally inclined to try and combat misinformation on the subject of COVID, which is obviously good. Still, not sure why his videos keep popping up in these threads. He is not qualified to provide the opinions that he so freely shares as an "influencer". And he, to no one's great surprise, is another ivermectin quack (even though he cannot prescribe or diagnose). Edit: Hydroxychloroquine, too, apparently.

Not as bad as the Epoch Times videos we were seeing earlier in this thread but also not reliable in the least. There are plenty of real professionals with appropriate training upon whom we can better rely.

Cool Ad Hominem attack bro. Clever, I'll give you that ... smear the source, and you don't have to engage with the data. Bit transparent though, don't you think?

I'm a weirdo. I appreciate impartial data driven analysis, and don't care about partisan political bullshit, or the crazy herd thinking that seems to have emerged since Trump brain fucked America. This Campbell guy doesn't give a shit and just follows the data wherever it leads. I appreciate that, because that's how science should work. Unfortunately people don't seem to be able to handle that simple process these days, especially if it conflicts with their presuppositions and prejudices.

This modern phenomena of opinions driven by fear of association is scary ... "They think that, so I must think not-that"

As for Ivermectin, the only thing more cringe than Ivermectin-conspiracists are anti-Ivermectin-drones - classic example of a bore-draw there.

[Sour Masher]

Cool Ad Hominem attack bro. Clever, I'll give you that ... smear the source, and you don't have to engage with the data. Bit transparent though, don't you think?

I'm a weirdo. I appreciate impartial data driven analysis, and don't care about partisan political bullshit, or the crazy herd thinking that seems to have emerged since Trump brain fucked America. This Campbell guy doesn't give a shit and just follows the data wherever it leads. I appreciate that, because that's how science should work. Unfortunately people don't seem to be able to handle that simple process these days, especially if it conflicts with their presuppositions and prejudices.

This modern phenomena of opinions driven by fear of association is scary ... "They think that, so I must think not-that"

As for Ivermectin, the only thing more cringe than Ivermectin-conspiracists are anti-Ivermectin-drones - classic example of a bore-draw there.

I agree with your overall sentiments here--that we should go where the data and logic take us, regardless of politics. The pandemic should not be a political issue, but it is, sadly. While I think the left is largely on the side of science and logic on this and the right has largely spouted dangerous lies that are killing people, there is no denying that tribalism has infected the discourse on this issue on both sides, and your reference to how possible treatments for COVID have been ridiculed by the left, even if there may, possibly be something there worthy of further discussion and study, simply because they are being pushed by those on the right, is proof of that. If it is true that this variant is less dangerous and will likely become dominant over alternatives that kill more people, that is great news that should be spread. But I suspect those whose career hangs in the balance are being more careful about speculating about that at this stage.

Still, and I say this in not to disparage Dr. Campbell or his methods, or criticize posting his video, which is interesting, but Bene does have a point that, ideally, we would rely on sources that are experts in the field (if we could find them). Dr. Campbell may be a good scientist in general, and may be good at explaining things to the public, but so is Bill Nye the Science Guy, and while I think he largely expresses truths on issues such as climate change and does a good public service in doing so, he is no expert, and he would need to cite those that are for me to take as valid claims he makes, especially if they are out of the mainstream.

I don't mind the speculation in this or other cases by informed novices, but that is what it should be labeled as at this point. He may be making reasonable inferences based on his understanding of the data and they may seem reasonable to us as lay people, and it all may come out to be as he says, but it is dangerous to think that someone not well-versed in the field is speaking the gospel truth and fully understand all the moving parts. It leads to folks saying, for instance, that we should purposely allow Omicron to spread as fast as possible to become dominant, which may seem to be a logically sound plan, but one that experts have been quick to label as a very bad idea (in part, I am sure, because any spread can lead to the next variant, which may be way more deadly). From what I have read, most experts seem to be holding off on making any definitive claims about Omicron at this point. I do hope it really is much more mild and less deadly. I'm all for this disease to wind its way down to being mild, because it seems super, duper unlikely it will be going away completely any time soon, or ever. In the meantime, I'm all for vaccination, and treatments proven to reduce symptoms and deaths.

[Gregg]

My 64 year old vaccinated Brother In Law has been diagnosed with Covid last Friday. He has a 101 temp, feels really sick. No Hospital yet. Praying for a fast and complete recovery.

He had the Johnson and Johnson.

And now my 60 year old sister (his wife) also has it. Also vaccinated with Johnson and Johnson.

[Bene Futuis]

Cool Ad Hominem attack bro. Clever, I'll give you that ... smear the source, and you don't have to engage with the data. Bit transparent though, don't you think?

I'm a weirdo. I appreciate impartial data driven analysis, and don't care about partisan political bullshit, or the crazy herd thinking that seems to have emerged since Trump brain fucked America. This Campbell guy doesn't give a shit and just follows the data wherever it leads. I appreciate that, because that's how science should work. Unfortunately people don't seem to be able to handle that simple process these days, especially if it conflicts with their presuppositions and prejudices.

This modern phenomena of opinions driven by fear of association is scary ... "They think that, so I must think not-that"

As for Ivermectin, the only thing more cringe than Ivermectin-conspiracists are anti-Ivermectin-drones - classic example of a bore-draw there.

There are plenty of qualified people, and again this guy is most certainly NOT qualified, who are following the data and that was the point of what I wrote --- nurses and others not qualified to diagnose or prescribe or without any experience whatsoever in epidemiology or a related field should be viewed with extreme caution. Sorry that hurts your feelings, but it's the truth. "Doctor" Campbell, who is not a medical doctor, is a popular YouTube influencer but not someone whose opinions on epidemiology should be taken seriously (nor should your asides about partisanship). His claims about ivermectin are emblematic of the fact that he is ill-equipped to speak fluently on the subject. If you really did care about data driven analysis, you would have already veered away from this guy. Edit: The efficacy of ivermectin is still very much up for debate, although a huge (now discredited) study provided most of the thrust behind the camp claiming it is efficacious.

[Bene Futuis]

And now my 60 year old sister (his wife) also has it. Also vaccinated with Johnson and Johnson.

Very sorry to hear this. Hope they both get better quickly, Gregg.

[chancellor]

Edit: The efficacy of ivermectin is still very much up for debate, although a huge (now discredited) study provided most of the thrust behind the camp claiming it is efficacious.

This really is too bad since there were a lot of countries using ivermectin as part of or a whole treatment course.

[Sour Masher]

And now my 60 year old sister (his wife) also has it. Also vaccinated with Johnson and Johnson.

Hope all ends up well.

[heyelander]

This really is too bad since there were a lot of countries using ivermectin as part of or a whole treatment course.

not speaking for my employer or anything, either one way or the other. The reporting I heard (on npr, not internal) was that it can be helpful to rid patience of underlying conditions (what it's made for) that exacerbate the symptoms/results of covid due to those other conditions. If you don't have those conditions, it doesn't help your covid. It's not a covid cure by any means.

[rhd]

Cool Ad Hominem attack bro. Clever, I'll give you that ... smear the source, and you don't have to engage with the data. Bit transparent though, don't you think?

I'm a weirdo. I appreciate impartial data driven analysis, and don't care about partisan political bullshit, or the crazy herd thinking that seems to have emerged since Trump brain fucked America. This Campbell guy doesn't give a shit and just follows the data wherever it leads. I appreciate that, because that's how science should work. Unfortunately people don't seem to be able to handle that simple process these days, especially if it conflicts with their presuppositions and prejudices.

This modern phenomena of opinions driven by fear of association is scary ... "They think that, so I must think not-that"

As for Ivermectin, the only thing more cringe than Ivermectin-conspiracists are anti-Ivermectin-drones - classic example of a bore-draw there.

Well stated. The problem w many so-called professionals, whether they be medical "professionals", such as the WHO, the CDC or Dr. Anthony Fraudci, or major media outlets is that often they cant be trusted these days because they to a large extent are influenced by big money in the form of big corporations, many of which have their own political agendas, or big governments, some of which are very hostile to the US and the rest of the western democracies and freedom and human rights in general. Aware, unbiased, scientifically-minded persons recognize this and seek more valid and complete information from other sources. Altho I dont agree w everything John Campbell says he is, along w some others, a breath of fresh air in a generally poisoned information environment.

About Ivermectin I know nothing but neither Johnny, nor anyone else I read here, was endorsing it. AFAIK, pretty much everyone here agrees that getting vaccinated, and using PPE (along w proper ventilation, something that I dont hear anyone ever mentioning except...John Campbell!) are the best defenses against CV-19. The comment above about Ivermectin was pretty random and unnecessary IMHO.

[DMT]

And now my 60 year old sister (his wife) also has it. Also vaccinated with Johnson and Johnson.

Sorry to hear that, hopefully the vaccines do their jobs and they recover quickly.

[chancellor]

not speaking for my employer or anything, either one way or the other. The reporting I heard (on npr, not internal) was that it can be helpful to rid patience of underlying conditions (what it's made for) that exacerbate the symptoms/results of covid due to those other conditions. If you don't have those conditions, it doesn't help your covid. It's not a covid cure by any means.

That's the general belief set, but there was a great opportunity to put together really good test sets for ivermectin alone and in combination with other treatments. As Bene noted, one prominent paper had major issues found with the dataset, and another large one didn't make it out of peer review since their raw data was lost. So what it exactly can and can not do is left to those often with axes to grind, one way or another.

[nullnor]

if you want to order Ivermectin https://www.wellerectile.com/product...care-combo-kit

i haven't done it myself yet. but it looks like a pretty safe site.

[nullnor]

[nullnor]

it's not about health, it's about following the rules.
it's always been about following rules. whatever happens, will happen anyways.

yet, it's not deterministic, unless we allow it. heh