The Space race

[Mithrandir]

What are Bezos, et al.. trying to accomplish with their space exploration?

Will it be beneficial to mankind at some point in some way?

Is it just a waste of money and showing off?

Could the billions spent be used to aid other critical issues on Earth?

I know it's their money, but what is the point?

[heyelander]

I may have pushed back on the NASA being a waste of money thing because I think research that is done by them has far reaching uses, but private organizations trying to duplicate something an "inefficient" government did better 50 years ago is a complete dick measuring move and a waste of money and pisses me off. Fuck all those guys.

[Ken]

I'm confused by what we are calling "beneficial" in this thread. This is entirely an entertainment industry that is being created - trips to space.

It's not intended as an economical aid. But that's true for the entire entertainment industry.

What is Hollywood trying to accomplish by creating movies?
What are vacation destinations trying to accomplish by attracting tourists?
What are video games for?
What are sports for?

Answer, in all cases, and in the case of privatized space travel - entertainment.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I'm confused by what we are calling "beneficial" in this thread. This is entirely an entertainment industry that is being created - trips to space.

It's not intended as an economical aid. But that's true for the entire entertainment industry.

What is Hollywood trying to accomplish by creating movies?
What are vacation destinations trying to accomplish by attracting tourists?
What are video games for?
What are sports for?

Answer, in all cases, and in the case of privatized space travel - entertainment.

At 28K a ticket is that really anything but a Status item for the Rich?

[Ken]

At 28K a ticket is that really anything but a Status item for the Rich?

I'm not sure what you mean.

If given opportunity to "travel to space", I'd imagine many people (the majority?) would say "yes" they would like to do that in their lifetime. It's something people want to do.

Given the fuel and tech required, it is extremely expensive to do so.

So there's extremely high demand, and extremely high costs for a new form of entertainment.

What's the question exactly?

[GwynnInTheHall]

I'm not sure what you mean.

If given opportunity to "travel to space", I'd imagine many people (the majority?) would say "yes" they would like to do that in their lifetime. It's something people want to do.

Given the fuel and tech required, it is extremely expensive to do so.

So there's extremely high demand, and extremely high costs for a new form of entertainment.

What's the question exactly?

It was Rhetorical--It's nothing more than a Looky what I can afford, status (dick measuring) exploit of the rich, though you are technically correct in labeling it "entertainment" , you are remiss in equating it's merit, if it has any, to the readily available overall concept of "entertainment".

[DMT]

I'm confused by what we are calling "beneficial" in this thread. This is entirely an entertainment industry that is being created - trips to space.

It's not intended as an economical aid. But that's true for the entire entertainment industry.

What is Hollywood trying to accomplish by creating movies?
What are vacation destinations trying to accomplish by attracting tourists?
What are video games for?
What are sports for?

Answer, in all cases, and in the case of privatized space travel - entertainment.

And movie tickets are equivalent to space tickets in what universe? I mean, I get your argument, but it's still wrong IMO. These billionaire fuckheads showing off their wealth while keeping their billions protected by outr rigged tax code (both in allowing them to hide their billions and not pay living wages to their workers) is indefensible.

[nullnor]

private industry taking over some of NASA's expertise.. I am all for it. when the challenger shuttle exploded, it set us back so much. could never take the risk of that happening again. but if that had never happened, we'd already be on Mars terraforming it.

and in the meantime if we can have a few rich people like Bezos blow up, and have someone else take over, who is really going to care.

[nullnor]

tell that to some pre-Madonna actors like Leonardo DiCaprio getting out of their Prius at a red carpet event. 'Hey, Buddy, do that in space and I will be impressed'.

[nullnor]

actors and influencers being lifted into space and breaking the escape velocity of earth? what could possible go wrong.

apologies to Christa McAuliffe. it was a tragedy in every sense of the word for mankind.

[nullnor]

when blasting off into space the most important thing to know is you are on a billion moving parts all built in Taiwan by the lowest bidder. and if the space program ever goes under, the woman strapping you in can always get a job afterwards at Helga's house of pain.

someday you are going to see a private citizen out of nowhere attempt to blast off into space and try to break earths escape velocity. some garage were some dude suddenly links his computers with NASA and attempts it.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I think SpaceX or whichever corporation getting into the competition for launching satellites or supply missions to the ISS makes a ton of sense, and SpaceX at least seems to be doing a better job of it than NASA or the European Space Agency.. I have a hard time caring one way or another about tourist space slight for the megarich.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I think SpaceX or whichever corporation getting into the competition for launching satellites or supply missions to the ISS makes a ton of sense, and SpaceX at least seems to be doing a better job of it than NASA or the European Space Agency.. I have a hard time caring one way or another about tourist space slight for the megarich.

You're always the most reasonable response--But FU the Padres lost tonight........

[chancellor]

What are Bezos, et al.. trying to accomplish with their space exploration?

I'm not clear on Bezos' reasons, but Elon Musk has been extremely clear that his long term goal is to colonize Mars.

Will it be beneficial to mankind at some point in some way?

Yes. How beneficial? Well, that's what isn't clear. Innovations from development can flow directly into society is the shorter term benefit. If you're a believer in green technology, it's highly possible major innovations could come from this work. Medium term, off-planet mining, especially of asteroids, could solve issues with limits on rare earth metals with little environmental risk to Earth.

Is it just a waste of money and showing off?

Showing off? Yeah, there's sure some of that. Waste of money? Nah, though here's where I probably differ with my many of our fellow posters. Let's say a worst case scenario happens, and the best thing that comes out of this is what Seitzer noted - they are a more efficient platform for space satellite delivery and ISS station maintenance/staffing/supplier. They'll create thousands of jobs paying billions of dollars in the effort, and many of those jobs will be the types we want to keep in the US - technology development, materials science research, engineers, and a host of other STEM specialties I don't even know about, all funded out of Bezos and Musk's pockets.

Could the billions spent be used to aid other critical issues on Earth?

Sure. That said, the issue becomes "who will spend the money and what will it be spent on?" Again, where I differ with many on the board is the concept of them being forced to hand it over to the government, on the premise that the government will actually spend it more beneficially. You'll be totally unsurprised to find out I think the odds of that happening don't even approach "slim". Other posters mileage does vary.

If you're saying they should set up a foundation akin to the Gates Foundation, I'd be more open to that argument.

I know it's their money, but what is the point?

As others have noted, ego is certainly some of the drive. OTOH, I'm actually glad there's a competition going on when it comes to space travel. Creativity is driven by complexity and radicalness, and radical solutions are more often found through competition than not.

[Sour Masher]

Certainly, there is ego and vanity involved, but I mostly agree with Chance. I just wish that competitive spirit was in play for how to make this planet better. Musk is doing that, but undercuts it with the bitcoin nonsense. Bezos could be doing so much more. I believe it is the responsibility of all the super rich, super powerful movers and shakers to think about how to run their businesses profitable and serving their customers as well as they can to ensure they maintain profitability, but also with the most positive impact possible for the planet and their employees. And no matter who it is, it seems like the top dog gets to that level by doing the opposite. It used to be Walmart that got all the negative attention, and now Amazon. I refuse to believe you have to shit on your employees and the environment to claw your way to the top, and even if you have to do some of that to get to the top, I can't believe that at least once you get there and have all the leverage that you can't at that point at least start to turn an eye to making things better for those who helped get you there as well as ensuring your impact on the environment as a whole is as positive as it can be.

I've read a lot about what it would take to colonize Mars and what it would mean, and it is very clear it is 1000s of times easier and faster, even after all we have done to this planet, to just make the most of the home we evolved to be in, and to protect it to ensure it keeps being the most habitable it can be for us. Space mining makes a lot more sense than colonizing in the short term (the next several hundred years). Those who eventually colonize other planets, if we ever make it that far, won't be human for long. Good ol planet earth will always be the home of humans, and we are at the point, like Amazon, where we have the resources and knowledge to make sure we continue to grow and thrive as responsibly as possible, with an eye not just to today, but toward the decades ahead, to our children and grandchildren and beyond.