Why do we use steals?

[Bene Futuis]

Steals seem less relevant to actual baseball with each passing year. I guess it's just a rotisserie baseball relic at this point and why change?

[Sour Masher]

You should switch to points leagues . My league has been a points league since 1994 and back then no one did them. Slowly, that has changed.

I just agreed to co-own in a weird h2h category league, though, that deals with the steals issue in a ham-fisted way. To reduce the importance of steals, they double up on power stats by counting both slugging and homers as categories. I've seen other methods to devalue steals with an extra power category, but I guess folks don't wanna give it up entirely.

[Bene Futuis]

I still really enjoy the roto format (and am a creature of habit) but I've done a couple points leagues over the years. I liked 'em okay but keep coming back to the 5x5 (also was in a 4x4 league some years back). Steals just seem very antiquated now, though. You're right that points leagues take care of the issue, for sure.

[BigJonEmpire]

Steals will make a comeback soon.

[madducks]

Steals will make a comeback soon.

I like the way you think.

And bunting. Remember bunting? I don't mean those sharply bunted grounders that are in the fielders glove before the batter is out of the box. I'm talking about real bunting down the third base line and having the ball come to a stop about half way down the line while staying fair. I especially would like to see more bunting to the empty side of the shift.

[joncarlos]

Because roto was invented in the early 80s? In other words, because of Rickey. Rickey thinks that's cool.

[Ken]

For me, steals is one of those things that makes roto fun. Limited resource, gotta figure out how to get your speed without overpaying, numbers change every year, etc. It's interesting.

[Gregg]

For me, steals is one of those things that makes roto fun. Limited resource, gotta figure out how to get your speed without overpaying, numbers change every year, etc. It's interesting.

Me too.

I also like them in real baseball.

[harmon]

Wins is another category that often gets questioned.

I like the category as it often keeps me involved in watching games to the end, and also for cheering on the hitters on my pitcher's team.

Just trying to replicate what today's analytics gurus believe in does not make for the most enjoyable watching experience.

[Teenwolf]

For me, steals is one of those things that makes roto fun. Limited resource, gotta figure out how to get your speed without overpaying, numbers change every year, etc. It's interesting.

I like SB because it forces fantasy players to contextualize value from different types of players. I love trying to figure out the differences in value for a 50 hit, 70 speed guy versus a 40 hit, 60 power guy, or a 55 hit, 50 power guy... I love having different skillsets to covet.

I have found that I would not like using caught stealing, however. Too many CS are result of botched hit-and-run plays or whatever. Seems like adding CS messes everything up. Glad I don't use the format anywhere.

[Gregg]

I like SB because it forces fantasy players to contextualize value from different types of players. I love trying to figure out the differences in value for a 50 hit, 70 speed guy versus a 40 hit, 60 power guy, or a 55 hit, 50 power guy... I love having different skillsets to covet.

I have found that I would not like using caught stealing, however. Too many CS are result of botched hit-and-run plays or whatever. Seems like adding CS messes everything up. Glad I don't use the format anywhere.

I agree.

Both our AL only and NL only voted to make it S-CS instead of just steals (I was outvoted). That lasted one year before it was overturned.

I had days where I went backwards in that category.

[DMT]

Wins is another category that often gets questioned.

I like the category as it often keeps me involved in watching games to the end, and also for cheering on the hitters on my pitcher's team.

Just trying to replicate what today's analytics gurus believe in does not make for the most enjoyable watching experience.

We switched to W+QS and nary a complaint after a few years.

[cavebird]

I agree.

Both our AL only and NL only voted to make it S-CS instead of just steals (I was outvoted). That lasted one year before it was overturned.

I had days where I went backwards in that category.

I like the theory behind S-CS, but not the practice. Too many guys who never try straight steals get CS's that aren't their fault, as others have noted. Makes it silly.

[ThatRogue]

For me, steals is one of those things that makes roto fun. Limited resource, gotta figure out how to get your speed without overpaying, numbers change every year, etc. It's interesting.

Me too.

I also like them in real baseball.

Agreed...they're a fun category in real baseball and roto, and I miss the days when teams ran more. There's obviously immense value in analytics, but as someone said, the closer the game gets to being played purely based on analytical analysis, the less "fun" it becomes (fewer steals, fewer attempts to bunt for base hits, fewer balls-in-play/more strikeouts due to swinging for HRs, the shift, etc.).

[bryanbutler]

I like the theory behind S-CS, but not the practice. Too many guys who never try straight steals get CS's that aren't their fault, as others have noted. Makes it silly.

My main league has used SB-CS for years, and I like it. For a couple of years we used SB-2*CS (which is the more sabrmetric way because it mimics RC, if I recall correctly), but that was brutal for all but a few players.

But why not penalize players for CS? Why should a player who gets caught half the time enjoy the stat boost? And, yes, I recognize the wonkiness of the stat sometimes - but why single it out instead of Sv or Ho or the unfairness of R or RBI (when somebody got on because of an E, e.g.), or others?

I've posted a few times here that Branch Rickey wrote an article in 1954 (in Life Magazine no less, titled "Goodby to Some Old Baseball Ideas" - see, e.g., https://invention.si.edu/branch-rick...ball-innovator) that said that the two most important statistics were OBA and EBA (what he called "Extra Base Power"). Why not use a single stat combining those two (essentially OPS) for offensive players and forget SB, RBI, and R? It might mimic the reality of offensive productivity more properly, but it's not particularly conducive to a game like rotisserie baseball (IMHO).