Covid Vaccine thread

[Gregg]

1.01-I didn't know we were going to have a discussion.
1.02-You type faster than me.
1.03- I had to type, delete, type, delete, type and reread remembering that this crowd can a will tag you for casual comments. Keeps me sharp.

Crickets I get Crickets!?

That some funny stuff right thar...Larry the Cable Guy.

[Sour Masher]

Ok, your analogy is not important.

Isn't your "negative" the same as my "nope" and why do you get to tell me I am not grasping it. I do grasp it. I just don't agree with it.

You said you had selfish friends that don't wear masks. What if they started wearing them around you. What would that be? I think it would be trying to be polite or caring around you their friend.

I'd be grateful to them for being respectful of others, even though they themselves, for some reason, are not aware of or do not accept the prevailing scientific evidence that mask wearing reduces transmission of a deadly virus that has killed millions, but I am curious about their perspective. There are a lot of unknowns about your friends here. Are they vaccinated? If so, I find their gesture especially thoughtful and nice, as I imagine a large percentage of full vaccinated people are looking forward to going maskless. Were they against not wearing masks before they were vaccinated? If so, why? Were they forming their opinions based on false sources that suggested masks don't do anything, or were they aware masks significantly lessen the risk of COVID transmission, but were just so confident they did not have it (even though they could be asymptomatic carriers), they thought it was silly to wear a mask to protect others and they did not care about the added risk for themselves?

ETA: I will throw out a not-perfect analogy here too. I liken mask wearing for your friends to condom wearing for some guys. Some people don't like them and will try to not wear them when they can, despite the risks, but ultimately decide to wear them, because they want to engage the people who insist upon them. That is my sense of it, but maybe your friends don't think they work at all?

[Ken]

ETA: I will throw out a not-perfect analogy here too. I liken mask wearing for your friends to condom wearing for some guys. Some people don't like them and will try to not wear them when they can, despite the risks, but ultimately decide to wear them, because they want to engage the people who insist upon them. That is my sense of it, but maybe your friends don't think they work at all?

Yeah but COVID isn't an STD

[Gregg]

I'd be grateful to them for being respectful of others, even though they themselves, for some reason, are not aware of or do not accept the prevailing scientific evidence that mask wearing reduces transmission of a deadly virus that has killed millions, but I am curious about their perspective. There are a lot of unknowns about your friends here. Are they vaccinated? If so, I find their gesture especially thoughtful and nice, as I imagine a large percentage of full vaccinated people are looking forward to going maskless. Were they against not wearing masks before they were vaccinated? If so, why? Were they forming their opinions based on false sources that suggested masks don't do anything, or were they aware masks significantly lessen the risk of COVID transmission, but were just so confident they did not have it (even though they could be asymptomatic carriers), they thought it was silly to wear a mask to protect others and they did not care about the added risk for themselves?

ETA: I will throw out a not-perfect analogy here too. I liken mask wearing for your friends to condom wearing for some guys. Some people don't like them and will try to not wear them when they can, despite the risks, but ultimately decide to wear them, because they want to engage the people who insist upon them. That is my sense of it, but maybe your friends don't think they work at all?

I find that wearing condoms in place of masks makes it hard to breathe.

Kidding aside. I tell all in my circle of family and friends who don't wear masks, next time you go for surgery tell your doctor to forget the mask. You want them comfortable and breathing easy. Unencumbered by that nasty mask that does nothing to prevent the spread of germs.

[Ken]

I find that wearing condoms in place of masks makes it hard to breathe.

Depends on how big your condoms are

Kidding aside. I tell all in my circle of family and friends who don't wear masks, next time you go for surgery tell your doctor to forget the mask. You want them comfortable and breathing easy. Unencumbered by that nasty mask that does nothing to prevent the spread of germs.

Great point

[Ken]

Also, this is oddly topical:

https://www.10tv.com/article/news/nation-world/mice-pigs-rectal-oxygen-delivery/507-576e8127-d912-4605-baad-f7e13d7680a5

[Sour Masher]

I find that wearing condoms in place of masks makes it hard to breathe.

Kidding aside. I tell all in my circle of family and friends who don't wear masks, next time you go for surgery tell your doctor to forget the mask. You want them comfortable and breathing easy. Unencumbered by that nasty mask that does nothing to prevent the spread of germs.

Good point, but all you gotta do is wear the condom like this lady wears her mask, with a big hold in the middle to help with the breathing.

[revo]

Since I'm still rather uncertain, the vaccines don't prevent contraction of the virus, just minimization of the symptoms. Is that right?

If that's right, then isn't it entirely possible, like the recent case with the Yankees, that vaccinated folks can and will still get the virus, but just be totally unaware they actually have it? Regular joes, especially those who've been vaccinated, aren't getting tested, so we all could be walking around with it despite being vaxxed? Do I have that right?

If that's accurate, that leads me to two thoughts:
1 - covid will ALWAYS be with us, until a vaccination actually eliminates it.
2 - won't this, ironically enough, make the anti-vaxxers even MORE susceptible to contraction of the virus, as everyone lets their guard down, takes the masks off, goes back to crowded spaces and workplaces, etc., and the vaxxers are protected but the anti-vaxxers aren't?

[Sour Masher]

Since I'm still rather uncertain, the vaccines don't prevent contraction of the virus, just minimization of the symptoms. Is that right?

If that's right, then isn't it entirely possible, like the recent case with the Yankees, that vaccinated folks can and will still get the virus, but just be totally unaware they actually have it? Regular joes, especially those who've been vaccinated, aren't getting tested, so we all could be walking around with it despite being vaxxed? Do I have that right?

If that's accurate, that leads me to two thoughts:
1 - covid will ALWAYS be with us, until a vaccination actually eliminates it.
2 - won't this, ironically enough, make the anti-vaxxers even MORE susceptible to contraction of the virus, as everyone lets their guard down, takes the masks off, goes back to crowded spaces and workplaces, etc., and the vaxxers are protected but the anti-vaxxers aren't?

No, while we are less certain of the efficacy of the vaccines in stopping the spread, vaccines both prevent symptoms and stop the spread, so the more people who get vaccinated, the less likely those that are unvaccinated will get the virus. Vaccination both prevents symptomatic responses to the virus (which is what the percentages we are told are about) as well as infection and spread, although data on the extent of the latter is still not known, so yes, vaccinated people can still get infected and spread the virus, but the extent of that is much less among a vaccinated population. I'm sure we will get better data on that soon.

"Currently authorized vaccines in the United States are highly effective at protecting vaccinated people against symptomatic and severe COVID-19. Additionally, a growing body of evidence suggests that fully vaccinated people are less likely to have asymptomatic infection or transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others. How long vaccine protection lasts and how much vaccines protect against emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants are still under investigation."

And elsewhere:

"Although COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting sick, scientists are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms. Early data show that vaccines help keep people with no symptoms from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html

[chancellor]

Agree with Sour Masher here.

Per revo's point 2, yeah, there's a risk of greater spread among those not vaccinated now. OTOH, it appears based on the numbers I've seen that most of our high-risk population is vaccinated (though certainly not anywhere near all), so severe cases should be much less. Given recent findings on immune response, those who get COVID have resistance roughly equal to vaccination, so cases should drop very quickly if there's any kind of a spike.

[Ken]

Agree with Sour Masher here.

Per revo's point 2, yeah, there's a risk of greater spread among those not vaccinated now. OTOH, it appears based on the numbers I've seen that most of our high-risk population is vaccinated (though certainly not anywhere near all), so severe cases should be much less. Given recent findings on immune response, those who get COVID have resistance roughly equal to vaccination, so cases should drop very quickly if there's any kind of a spike.

One thing that flies under the radar is high risk youth that cannot be vaccinated.

[revo]

Agree with Sour Masher here.

Per revo's point 2, yeah, there's a risk of greater spread among those not vaccinated now. OTOH, it appears based on the numbers I've seen that most of our high-risk population is vaccinated (though certainly not anywhere near all), so severe cases should be much less. Given recent findings on immune response, those who get COVID have resistance roughly equal to vaccination, so cases should drop very quickly if there's any kind of a spike.

I've read that covid antibodies should give resistance for 6 months, but then fade. If those people don't get the vaccine, they seem to be very susceptible to a reoccurrence.

[chancellor]

I've read that covid antibodies should give resistance for 6 months, but then fade. If those people don't get the vaccine, they seem to be very susceptible to a reoccurrence.

More recent studies are much more optimistic, though, again, I agree with SM - we're not at a point where the science is fixed yet.

Reference: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9

[revo]

More recent studies are much more optimistic, though, again, I agree with SM - we're not at a point where the science is fixed yet.

Reference: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9

Good article, thanks. I realize the science is evolving, so we won't know for sure, but this is helpful.

[Sour Masher]

It bums me out that vaccination rates are still so low in the black community. More needs to be done to reach out and change that.