And so it has begun

[swampdragon]

I ask again - what else does anyone see in the next week?
Trump self pardon? - yep
Trump step down? - nope
Violence in DC? - yep - before the inauguration? yep - during the inauguration? - nope
members of congress being removed? Hmm not sure - who? maybe those two dangerous female reps?
members of congress stepping down?

Trump and the senate? what happens there?

Trump disappearing? YES - how many days before to the inauguration? and to where?

Trump delivering a crazypants speech - YES

We got a busy 7 days coming

[Kevin Seitzer]

I ask again - what else does anyone see in the next week?
Trump self pardon? - yep
Trump step down? - nope
Violence in DC? - yep - before the inauguration? yep - during the inauguration? - nope
members of congress being removed? Hmm not sure - who? maybe those two dangerous female reps?
members of congress stepping down?

Trump and the senate? what happens there?

Trump disappearing? YES - how many days before to the inauguration? and to where?

Trump delivering a crazypants speech - YES

We got a busy 7 days coming

Trump self pardon? - wouldn't surprise me if he tries, definitely expect him to pardon his family and Guiliani
Trump step down? - before Jan 20? no
Violence in DC? - yes, although the presence of so many National Guard troops is deterrent
members of congress being removed? no
members of congress stepping down? no

Trump and the senate? what happens there? a very small handful of Republicans vote to convict but nowhere near 2/3 majority needed

Trump disappearing? - he's conflicted between wanting to be the center of attention and not wanting to look like a loser - I think the attention whore wins out, as it has his whole life
- how many days before to the inauguration? and to where?

Trump delivering a crazypants speech - he does this virtually every time he speaks so not sure where you are setting the bar for crazy

[nullnor]

Trump won't self pardon himself, if that would even work. he won't resign and have Pence do it. a pardon would be admitting guilt and open himself up to potential civil litigation. he won't pardon any of his family members either. he really doesn't think he did anything wrong.

I think there's a good chance impeachment sticks. if Mitchell McConnell is upset about the results in Georgia and blames Trump for tipping the scales, he has nothing to really lose or fear from leading enough republicans to convict. if someone like John Bolton can turn on Trump, when Trump damages the most important thing they care about, McConnell can too. not having a split government obliterates McConnell's game plan for at least two years. when you see Liz Cheney and Kevin McCarthy in the House admonish Trump also, the winds of impeachment are howling.

[Sour Masher]

First off, I apologize, since I apparently came off that way. I read your question as a pretty direct one and a pretty much either/or answer. I misunderstood, and my answer must have appeared snarky. That was not my intent.



You are correct that I post little in depth in here anymore. Stopped circa 2017 on that; the toxicity just wasn't worth it.

Well, if this is get off our chest stuff to Chance day, I guess I will pile on.

I hear you and I understand. I stayed mostly on the baseball side, because I didn't want to get angry at fellow baseball lovers and get them angry at me, until the rise of Trump, who I saw then and now as a fundamentally different animal than anything else I'd seen in my lifetime politically. I saw a walking embodiment of a future Orwellian dystopia, if we let him lead us there. I saw a fascist wanna-be dictator who was leading us down a dark path of divisiveness with his deceits and double-speak. I have never and I will never get how smart, thoughtful right leaning folks such as yourself minimized or dismissed the nature and scope of the threat he posed and continues to pose. There have been many times where I really wanted you, of all people, to argue the opposing viewpoint, because I respect you as a poster for your knowledge and temperament, and I wanted to understand your position.

But I also understand why you came to the same conclusion that the computer from WarGames did. You made the choice not to play the game, and I get it. Folks on the right here are vastly outnumbered by those on the left, and as soon as someone of the right expresses something the rest of us thinks is way off base, it is like blood in the water and the sharks all go on the attack. Who the heck wants to be in the middle of a feeding frenzy with few allies in sight to provide cover?

I have witnessed you be viscously attacked in here, and unlike others, you have never been baited into going low. There are so few voices on the right here, it is a shame we can't get into meaningful discussions. On the far right, CBB is MIA, nots is MIA, 1jay only pops in once and awhile and then he seems to enjoy making the sharks go crazy by making completely baseless and unfounded claims as if they are axiomatic (I may be giving too much credit here to suggest this may be on purpose), and others like Bernie Brewer have gone, and so have left-leaning voices of the more polite variety like B-Fly. Toward the middle, but with still very different priorities than those on the left here, we have JJ, who recently returned from self-exile, but would do so, so much better, if he could offer his correctives about the left not following into the same intellectual pitfalls that have brought the right into the mire of believing what they want (and what Trump tells them) rather than examining what is real, without all the pedantic "pro-tips" and condescension (though that might be a chicken and egg thing--I don't know what came first, the baiting condescension, of the personal jabs aimed at him--I really don't know, but both exists now). And lately, that has been about it, which all amounts, often, to the rest of us expressing different levels of outrage to Trump and all he stands for.

So while I don't agree with KS's suggestion that your line walking contributions, focused on law, or providing some historical perspective, or a bit of snark here and there, have no value (to me, they do), I too am disappointed that the most well-informed and historically knowledgable Trump supporter I have ever had access to in a place like this does not lay all his cards on the table and make his case for why Trump is anything but a cancer on our democracy. But again, I get it. If you did, you would be attacked ad hominem, as you have been in the past, Hell, I'm sure some of your ideas would make my head explode with WTF fury, though I'd promise to keep our debates to the ideas and opinions and not make attacks personal as you have had to endure before.

So yeah, I guess I wanted to make a similar point to KS here, but also speak up to say I understand why you have chosen to restrict your posting as you have. If I had folks say to me what they have said to you, I'd have lost my temper and appetite to engage here on those kind of issues too, and you are more forgiving and better tempered than me, to have brushed off what you have (although, I did get a bit of a chuckle in your use of the term toxic to describe this environment, because while i agree that it can be at times, I do remember one of the last substantive debates we had was on the concept of toxic masculinity and your not liking that term "toxic" too much).

ETA: I still fully hope for you to do your annual pitchers list. I know I speak for most here left and right that we all eagerly await those.

[chancellor]

Actually, you’re too generous. I did go low on GITH and Teenwolf, and regretted it. It’s one of the key reasons I changed my mode in here to very limited participation and mostly in fun.

Don’t worry, I’ll remain active in the Sports forums. I’m hoping to find time for a SP Tiers list this year and a general RP review; targeting early February.

[Ken]

I feel like during the Trump admin that you haven't talked here about what you actually believe in and care deeply about, that you've come to make clever points and little comments here and there. Which is fine if you want to engage with this forum that way. It isn't like Hot Button Topics is the United States Congress or the British parliament, or something of that import. But I don't know how to take your comments seriously when you don't ever take a stand for anything heartfelt or principled, and it's just about adding some little zinger or comeback to something someone else posted.

I’m guilty of this as well.

[The Feral Slasher]

I’m guilty of this as well.

I think this is an under appreciated aspect of the damage Trump has done. Being anti-Trump was satisfactory the last 4 years. But it doesn't do anything to make things better once he is gone.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Actually, you’re too generous. I did go low on GITH and Teenwolf, and regretted it. It’s one of the key reasons I changed my mode in here to very limited participation and mostly in fun.

Don’t worry, I’ll remain active in the Sports forums. I’m hoping to find time for a SP Tiers list this year and a general RP review; targeting early February.

You'd have to get really low to get under me. :P

[GwynnInTheHall]

I think this is an under appreciated aspect of the damage Trump has done. Being anti-Trump was satisfactory the last 4 years. But it doesn't do anything to make things better once he is gone.

Gotta pull the plank outta our eye before we can get that speck o dust outta the other.

[madducks]

I think this is an under appreciated aspect of the damage Trump has done. Being anti-Trump was satisfactory the last 4 years. But it doesn't do anything to make things better once he is gone.

We can still be anti-Hawley, anti-Cruz, anti-McConnell, anti-Graham, etc, etc. I think that uneducated voters who used to only vote in the Presidential election have now realized that the mid-terms are just as important if not more. They now realize that obstruction is the norm and mid-term elections are basically a vote to tie or untie the hands of the President.

[The Feral Slasher]

We can still be anti-Hawley, anti-Cruz, anti-McConnell, anti-Graham, etc, etc..

You are just making my point. I am not interested in who you are against. What are you for ?

[madducks]

You are just making my point. I am not interested in who you are against. What are you for ?

Untying the hands of the President by giving him a Congress that will work with him.

[The Feral Slasher]

Untying the hands of the President by giving him a Congress that will work with him.

well that is informative. What do you want him to work with congress to accomplish ? Or is it enough that he isn't trump ? What should Biden do ? Or does it even matter, since he isn't a Republican?

EDIT: shouldn't we all believe in something and expect our government to accomplish it ? Just getting rid of Republicans is not nearly enough for me.

[GwynnInTheHall]

well that is informative. What do you want him to work with congress to accomplish ? Or is it enough that he isn't trump ? What should Biden do ? Or does it even matter, since he isn't a Republican?

Medicare for All. Reduce Defense spending. Make the LGBTQ community constitutionally equal. Return regulatory protections for workers. Return protections to the environment. Forgive student debt. Free community college and vocational training. Tax the 1% and corporations at pre 80's levels. Overturn Citizens United. Scale back or eliminate the Patriot Act. Rejoin the Paris Climate accords. Renegotiate the Iran Nuke treaty. Create uniform election protocols for National Elections. Make DC and PR states. Expand the SCOTUS. Regulate Pharma prices. Decriminalize cannabis and all it's byproducts Federally. Expand environmental protections and implement stringent eco regulations to slow/reduce climate change. Rebuild relationships with our allies. Investigate and prosecute if ness anyone found complicit in the attacks on the Capitol. Designate, criminalize hate groups/speech. Restore/strengthen the separation of church and state. Ban assault rifles. require EVERY gun to be registered and enact strict gun laws to hold EVERY gun owner accountable for their weapon and it's safe storage, transport and use. Tax churches that use their pulpit to solicit political opinion. Enact regulations allowing Media to be sued for intentionally broadcasting/disseminating false information. Require businesses to pay a living wage in step with the local cost of living--If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to afford rent, food, utilities, education and healthcare. Keep religion out of Public schools. Federal mandate for Masks until the Covid issue is in the rear mirror. Free Covid Vaccines to all citizens. Fix the immigration issues. Establish a National registry that tracks ALL law enforcement, prohibit the rehire of any discharged for violence or other nefarious actions. Get rid of, for profit prisons.


That's just a few things off the top of my head.

[Teenwolf]

I appreciate the apology and the clarification.

But I will also say that I am not very motivated to take your contributions in this forum seriously under those terms. Which again, is fine, if disappointing.

Personally, I (attempt to) choose to quit engaging with those posters in this forum with whom I don't find the conversations productive and engage with those with whom I do. There's even an ignore function that helps with that. You obviously don't have to take the approach I've taken (not always perfectly), but you don't contribute much to this forum in the current mode, and that's disappointing to me because I think you could.

Edit to add: I'm not sure what your purpose in being in this forum is. Maybe it's just blowing off steam or getting some cheap entertainment. But if you are trying to gently nudge people toward the truth and don't want to come out and actually advocate for a position because you think the resulting discussion will turn toxic, I will also say that pointing out "hey you might be wrong in this small way here" without actually saying what you yourself believe is not an approach that I think helps anyone change their viewpoints or beliefs. I've had my beliefs changed by people in this forum, but it was by people like B-Fly and eldiablo who advocated clearly for what they believed and explained why. It gave me a window into how other people lived and thought, and it was helpful in my own journey.

The fact that chancellor continues to respond genuinely, and often in great detail, to my queries, after I viciously attacked him on here multiple times is a testament to his character. He values shared information over his own ego. Something many here could take a cue from.

I find it funny that people think its pointless to post if you're not looking to sway the conversation. I'm really not looking to intentionally change anybody's mind, ever. I value the sharing of information and chancellor brings one of the most well informed opinions to the table on the fantasy side and the political, historical, etc. He also offers perspectives on mainstream Conservative talking points of the day without endorsing them as his own, which I would have little window into otherwise. I find this approach vastly superior to the conservatives that we used to see who shared their exact deplorable views in service of their egos and transparently trolling.

I can sense how many ignore lists I'm on these days, and I wish I had more personal restraint to have avoided it.

I keep a healthy ignore list, but I always read them anyway.... I just treat it as a continual "note to self: fuck this guy", but I still respond to them occasionally because I would like to believe I value sharing of information over personal disagreements.