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Thread: And so it has begun

  1. #331
    All Star The Feral Slasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
    Medicare for All. Reduce Defense spending. Make the LGBTQ community constitutionally equal. Return regulatory protections for workers. Return protections to the environment. Forgive student debt. Free community college and vocational training. Tax the 1% and corporations at pre 80's levels. Overturn Citizens United. Scale back or eliminate the Patriot Act. Rejoin the Paris Climate accords. Renegotiate the Iran Nuke treaty. Create uniform election protocols for National Elections. Make DC and PR states. Expand the SCOTUS. Regulate Pharma prices. Decriminalize cannabis and all it's byproducts Federally. Expand environmental protections and implement stringent eco regulations to slow/reduce climate change. Rebuild relationships with our allies. Investigate and prosecute if ness anyone found complicit in the attacks on the Capitol. Designate, criminalize hate groups/speech. Restore/strengthen the separation of church and state. Ban assault rifles. require EVERY gun to be registered and enact strict gun laws to hold EVERY gun owner accountable for their weapon and it's safe storage, transport and use. Tax churches that use their pulpit to solicit political opinion. Enact regulations allowing Media to be sued for intentionally broadcasting/disseminating false information. Require businesses to pay a living wage in step with the local cost of living--If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to afford rent, food, utilities, education and healthcare. Keep religion out of Public schools. Federal mandate for Masks until the Covid issue is in the rear mirror. Free Covid Vaccines to all citizens. Fix the immigration issues. Establish a National registry that tracks ALL law enforcement, prohibit the rehire of any discharged for violence or other nefarious actions. Get rid of, for profit prisons.


    That's just a few things off the top of my head.
    if none of that happens are you happy to just be anti-Trump and anti-Hawley, anti-Cruz etc ?

  2. #332
    All Star Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
    EDIT: shouldn't we all believe in something and expect our government to accomplish it ? Just getting rid of Republicans is not nearly enough for me.
    I disagree. (Actually I really do disagree this time.)

    Shouldn't we "all". No! An astounding no, from me. Should YOU. Yes, I think you should. You've proven in many circumstances that you have an educated, logical, thought out opinion on many topics. Should many, many other people on this forum, YES.

    But "all"? No. I don't think so. And I think that's one (of many) things that are coming to a head in the last several years. Everyone shouldn't aggressively push a political opinion because they can't. They aren't capable. We've SEEN it. Almost half of the US just voted for the worst opinion in our lifetime. It was blatantly obviously and they swung and missed. They saw it in action for 4 years and they still voted for it. Based on that proven lack of capacity for mental acumen many people should NOT be political. They need to be reasonable and realize politics is just not for them.

    And that's okay. Look we have large, complex problems to solve. Any of us can say "I know the right way". But how many of us actually have enough data and experience to know 100% that it is the best? Some of us do. Some of us have life experience related to some topic, and have seen it in action. But, even those people should have pause. Because for every political opinion, there's an opposing one - and there's someone whose life experiences tell them the opposite. So we have to have enough empathy to understand the opposing side and rationalize it alongside our own opinions.

    But we have so much information at the tip of our fingertips that we all think we are experts. We aren't! News flash. There's still a lot of dumb people. There's still a lot of ignorant people. There's still a lot of people who simply don't have time to know and research and grasp all the issues (hello single parents with 2 jobs just trying to get by).

    I'm going to be honest with you that I don't have most of the answers. Politics isn't my thing. Sometimes I wish it was. Sometimes I'm glad it's not. But I'm NOT the guy whose going to list off a list of 20 things that need to be done and exactly how they should be done. For a variety of reasons - lack of study, lack of life experience in many cases (hello white, middle class privilege), lack of time (60 hour work week), higher personal priorities (my kids), laziness (I'll be honest).

    But can I look at the narcissist piece of garbage and listen to his degrading tone and words and realize there's no universe where he's the right option? I sure can! And can I look at the other guy and trust that he's going to do a better job? Absolutely. A better job than his opponent, and a much better job than me.

    Maybe I outed myself here and maybe some of you will discredit me for that. I'm okay with that.

    I don't have a laundry list of things that I expect this regime to do. But I think that's okay.

  3. #333
    All Star Kevin Seitzer's Avatar
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    I agree with a lot of the things on GITH's list, some of them I don't or would have a different take on them. And I have trouble reading that list in a big run-on paragraph. I think a lot of them will get done and a lot of them won't, and overall in the legislative sense I believe there will be progress in a Biden administration.

    But for me I would put two things far above the others, things that are critical and that the Trump administration has made an absolute hash of:
    1. Restore the executive branch to following the constitution. (I don't expect the Biden admin will be perfect at this because no admin is, but I expect them to sincerely try to do it. Trump admin didn't even care.)
    2. Make attacking COVID the top national priority.
    "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

  4. #334
    All Star GwynnInTheHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
    if none of that happens are you happy to just be anti-Trump and anti-Hawley, anti-Cruz etc ?
    No I would not be.
    If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #335
    All Star Kevin Seitzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    I disagree. (Actually I really do disagree this time.)

    Shouldn't we "all". No! An astounding no, from me. Should YOU. Yes, I think you should. You've proven in many circumstances that you have an educated, logical, thought out opinion on many topics. Should many, many other people on this forum, YES.

    But "all"? No. I don't think so. And I think that's one (of many) things that are coming to a head in the last several years. Everyone shouldn't aggressively push a political opinion because they can't. They aren't capable We've SEEN it. Almost half of the US just voted for the worst opinion in our lifetime. They saw it in action for 4 years and they still voted for it. Based on that proven lack of capacity for mental acumen many people should NOT be political. They need to be reasonable and realize politics is just not for them.

    And that's okay. Look we have large, complex problems to solve. Any of us can say "I know the right way". But how many of us actually have enough data and experience to know 100% that it is the best? Some of us do. Some of us have life experience related to some topic, and have seen it in action. But, even those people should have pause. Because for every political opinion, there's an opposing one - and there's someone whose life experiences tell them the opposite. So we have to have enough empathy to understand the opposing side and rationalize it alongside our own opinions.

    But we have so much information at the tip of our fingertips that we all think we are experts. We aren't! News flash. There's still a lot of dumb people. There's still a lot of ignorant people. There's still a lot of people who simply don't have time to know and research and grasp all the issues (hello single parents with 2 jobs just trying to get by).

    I'm going to be honest with you that I don't have most of the answers. Politics isn't my thing. Sometimes I wish it was. Sometimes I'm glad it's not. But I'm NOT the guy whose going to list off a list of 20 things that need to be done and exactly how they should be done. For a variety of reasons - lack of study, lack of life experience in many cases (hello white, middle class privilege), lack of time (60 hour work week), high priorities (my kids), laziness (I'll be honest).

    But can I look at the narcissist piece of garbage and listen to his degrading tone and words? I sure can! And can I look at the other guy and trust that he's going to do a better job? Absolutely. A better job than his opponent, and a much better job than me.

    Maybe I outed myself here and maybe some of you will discredit me for that. I'm okay with that.

    I don't have a laundry list of things that I expect this regime to do. But I think that's okay.
    I agree with this, at least in spirit. The one thing I expect the Biden administration to do is to govern to the best of their ability with the best interests of the country at heart. They're not going to do it perfectly, and yes, special interests have their hands in the Democratic Party as much as they do in the Republican Party. But the Trump admin was clearly governing to stroke Trump's ego and fill his pockets and those of his friends and cronies and to "own the libs". I expect the Biden admin to try to do what's best for America, and that, in and of itself, beyond any list of legislative or administrative priorities, is HUGE.
    "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

  6. #336
    All Star madducks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    I disagree. (Actually I really do disagree this time.)

    Shouldn't we "all". No! An astounding no, from me. Should YOU. Yes, I think you should. You've proven in many circumstances that you have an educated, logical, thought out opinion on many topics. Should many, many other people on this forum, YES.

    But "all"? No. I don't think so. And I think that's one (of many) things that are coming to a head in the last several years. Everyone shouldn't aggressively push a political opinion because they can't. They aren't capable. We've SEEN it. Almost half of the US just voted for the worst opinion in our lifetime. It was blatantly obviously and they swung and missed. They saw it in action for 4 years and they still voted for it. Based on that proven lack of capacity for mental acumen many people should NOT be political. They need to be reasonable and realize politics is just not for them.

    And that's okay. Look we have large, complex problems to solve. Any of us can say "I know the right way". But how many of us actually have enough data and experience to know 100% that it is the best? Some of us do. Some of us have life experience related to some topic, and have seen it in action. But, even those people should have pause. Because for every political opinion, there's an opposing one - and there's someone whose life experiences tell them the opposite. So we have to have enough empathy to understand the opposing side and rationalize it alongside our own opinions.

    But we have so much information at the tip of our fingertips that we all think we are experts. We aren't! News flash. There's still a lot of dumb people. There's still a lot of ignorant people. There's still a lot of people who simply don't have time to know and research and grasp all the issues (hello single parents with 2 jobs just trying to get by).

    I'm going to be honest with you that I don't have most of the answers. Politics isn't my thing. Sometimes I wish it was. Sometimes I'm glad it's not. But I'm NOT the guy whose going to list off a list of 20 things that need to be done and exactly how they should be done. For a variety of reasons - lack of study, lack of life experience in many cases (hello white, middle class privilege), lack of time (60 hour work week), higher personal priorities (my kids), laziness (I'll be honest).

    But can I look at the narcissist piece of garbage and listen to his degrading tone and words and realize there's no universe where he's the right option? I sure can! And can I look at the other guy and trust that he's going to do a better job? Absolutely. A better job than his opponent, and a much better job than me.

    Maybe I outed myself here and maybe some of you will discredit me for that. I'm okay with that.

    I don't have a laundry list of things that I expect this regime to do. But I think that's okay.


    I was going to say if i wanted to spend hours each day arguing my position then i would have ran for office so i could get paid for my time. But, you said it much better.

    ETA: I also liked GITH's list (or paragraph lol). I admit that i hadn't considered some of those items before.

  7. #337
    All Star The Feral Slasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    I disagree. (Actually I really do disagree this time.)

    Shouldn't we "all". No! An astounding no, from me. Should YOU. Yes, I think you should. You've proven in many circumstances that you have an educated, logical, thought out opinion on many topics. Should many, many other people on this forum, YES.

    But "all"? No. I don't think so. And I think that's one (of many) things that are coming to a head in the last several years. Everyone shouldn't aggressively push a political opinion because they can't. They aren't capable. We've SEEN it. Almost half of the US just voted for the worst opinion in our lifetime. It was blatantly obviously and they swung and missed. They saw it in action for 4 years and they still voted for it. Based on that proven lack of capacity for mental acumen many people should NOT be political. They need to be reasonable and realize politics is just not for them.

    And that's okay. Look we have large, complex problems to solve. Any of us can say "I know the right way". But how many of us actually have enough data and experience to know 100% that it is the best? Some of us do. Some of us have life experience related to some topic, and have seen it in action. But, even those people should have pause. Because for every political opinion, there's an opposing one - and there's someone whose life experiences tell them the opposite. So we have to have enough empathy to understand the opposing side and rationalize it alongside our own opinions.

    But we have so much information at the tip of our fingertips that we all think we are experts. We aren't! News flash. There's still a lot of dumb people. There's still a lot of ignorant people. There's still a lot of people who simply don't have time to know and research and grasp all the issues (hello single parents with 2 jobs just trying to get by).

    I'm going to be honest with you that I don't have most of the answers. Politics isn't my thing. Sometimes I wish it was. Sometimes I'm glad it's not. But I'm NOT the guy whose going to list off a list of 20 things that need to be done and exactly how they should be done. For a variety of reasons - lack of study, lack of life experience in many cases (hello white, middle class privilege), lack of time (60 hour work week), higher personal priorities (my kids), laziness (I'll be honest).

    But can I look at the narcissist piece of garbage and listen to his degrading tone and words and realize there's no universe where he's the right option? I sure can! And can I look at the other guy and trust that he's going to do a better job? Absolutely. A better job than his opponent, and a much better job than me.

    Maybe I outed myself here and maybe some of you will discredit me for that. I'm okay with that.

    I don't have a laundry list of things that I expect this regime to do. But I think that's okay.
    I disagree












    and i do, truly. sort of. But I understand what you are saying. if all you want is not Trump then you will be happy, and without any snark that is good. Low expectations are a blessing. I expect more, and I'll surely be disappointed. There are certainly some things I'd like to see and it's not because I'm an expert. anyway, enough for tonight.

  8. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
    Medicare for All. Reduce Defense spending. Make the LGBTQ community constitutionally equal. Return regulatory protections for workers. Return protections to the environment. Forgive student debt. Free community college and vocational training. Tax the 1% and corporations at pre 80's levels. Overturn Citizens United. Scale back or eliminate the Patriot Act. Rejoin the Paris Climate accords. Renegotiate the Iran Nuke treaty. Create uniform election protocols for National Elections. Make DC and PR states. Expand the SCOTUS. Regulate Pharma prices. Decriminalize cannabis and all it's byproducts Federally. Expand environmental protections and implement stringent eco regulations to slow/reduce climate change. Rebuild relationships with our allies. Investigate and prosecute if ness anyone found complicit in the attacks on the Capitol. Designate, criminalize hate groups/speech. Restore/strengthen the separation of church and state. Ban assault rifles. require EVERY gun to be registered and enact strict gun laws to hold EVERY gun owner accountable for their weapon and it's safe storage, transport and use. Tax churches that use their pulpit to solicit political opinion. Enact regulations allowing Media to be sued for intentionally broadcasting/disseminating false information. Require businesses to pay a living wage in step with the local cost of living--If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to afford rent, food, utilities, education and healthcare. Keep religion out of Public schools. Federal mandate for Masks until the Covid issue is in the rear mirror. Free Covid Vaccines to all citizens. Fix the immigration issues. Establish a National registry that tracks ALL law enforcement, prohibit the rehire of any discharged for violence or other nefarious actions. Get rid of, for profit prisons.


    That's just a few things off the top of my head.
    Good list, didn't see any I disagree with.
    If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
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  9. #339
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    Most of GITH list I agree with, to at least some degree, of what is needed. And that is troubling to me, as that means I am pretty much a cookie cutter dem. I do watch Morning Joe while drinking my am coffee. I find it hard to believe that Bloomberg and NBC are nearly as slanted as the "conservative" outlets. I find I also consume NPR, but I cannot make it thru even 90 seconds of FOX as it is so transparently twisted.

    I would love to see a corresponding list for republicans, that in general most agree with.

    As it stands now, virtually any scenario that is asked, I think of what would be the decent thing to do, and invariably it falls under the dem umbrella of strengthening the social safety net which btw invariably helps all by its implementation, or of environment protections, which again helps all.

    You may think issuing everyone a voucher to allow them to get reimbursed for trade school would not help you. But we have so many people who need to be retrofitted for the many many open high paying jobs of hvac, or coding, or plumbing, nursing, automotive. It greatly helps society, ie you, as well as the person who gets trained. Biden is for many of the listed positions to some degree, so there is zero chance it would be simply anti trump and go home. Strongly believe, if you think of what would be the decent thing to try to pursue, you already have the Biden position pretty well locked in, as they would be the same path.

  10. #340
    Welcome to the Big Leagues, Kid
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    If dems generally agree on 90%+, and I think that is fair, most dems would agree with 90%+ of Giths list, what is bogging down the party unity is a sliver, but what a sliver. Arguments are about a vote that took place 20 years ago, or of an appointment who may have been on 20 boards, but you disagree with 1 of the boards stances. I mean there is so much against the implementation of progressive (decency) agendas, namely it is money.

    The trumper mindset is more challenging to me. There are millions, maybe even nearly half the voting block, that believes trump over reality. In the Capitol case, they hear trumps calls over weeks to assemble then stood and heard his lil speech about lets be strong, dont let them steal this election, we will all be walking down this road to the capitol. I will be with you, and we will make this happen. And the mob listened, and at end of speech did as asked, it was as direct, as clear a connection as any hypothetical case of mob incitement you could conjure in a classroom.

    And the hundreds of people assembled I am sure all thought they were doing the right thing. I can say this because we all generally are trying to do what we think are the right thing, we are all the heroes in our own stories. The mob had to see themselves as Mel Gibson in Braveheart charging into the muck, but backed by righteousness on their side. Could they, even now, admit hey trump lied, as he constantly does, and we were duped, and the election was not rigged, we were just conned to be pawns? And how does all this fit in the alternate GITH list I would love to see, of conservative values, or trumper values.

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