President Joseph Biden

[Sour Masher]

What did folks think of Biden's Town Hall?

His student debt relief talking points were awful. He claimed that he wants to do $10K in debt relief but that he "wouldn't have the authority" to do $50K. While he could forgive ANY amount of debt through executive order, he is claiming his hands are tied by the senate. Chuck Schumer already came out swinging for $50K, so which one of them is lying?

Biden also claimed his own kids managed to pay off over $100K in student loan debt each, therefore that was evidence to him that that's the way America should operate... completely ignoring his kids profiteering off their family name, or at the very least receiving preferential treatment in landing plum jobs. Pretending that if the former VP's kids could pay off $100K in debt, anybody should be able to... wow. How much more out of touch with reality could you possibly be?

Lotta people eating their "brunch" from the dollar general.

Here's an article about Biden's son in law profiteering from the pandemic. I'm shocked nobody here brought it up, shocked I say. Why would Biden want M4A when his own family works for a healthcare venture capital firm? Oh right, he doesn't want M4A. I'm sure the two points are completely unrelated.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/bidens-son...ry?id=75743380

The student loan thing--I always assumed the relief would be modest, specifically 10k. I still think that will happen. Going big on this issue always had problems. We are talking a massive amount of money, and without new revenue coming in, it could potentially mean cutting tons of other aid programs that do even more good than SL debt relief. There is also an equity aspect in play. Fixing yesterday's problem is important, but not if the underlying disease of sky high education costs are not addressed going forward. It is a complex issue, and given the available resources, a 50K for all relief package is unlikely the best use of resources for this problem.

And for the record, while I ate Ramen noodles for 4 years and had only about 12k debt leaving college that I have paid off, my wife decided to live large by having a meal plan and decent housing, so had over 50k in loans, and 15 years later still has half of that due. She consolidated, though, so I doubt she would qualify for any relief, as her loan is no longer federal. Consolidating was a horrible idea too, as the loan she has is at 7% and completely interest front loaded, so she is just now really biting into the actual debt after years of just paying mostly interest. It sucks, and she is not alone, but I have yet to see a clear explanation of where the funds for a big relief plan would come from.

[Ken]

And for the record, while I ate Ramen noodles for 4 years and had only about 12k debt leaving college that I have paid off, my wife decided to live large by having a meal plan and decent housing, so had over 50k in loans, and 15 years later still has half of that due. She consolidated, though, so I doubt she would qualify for any relief, as her loan is no longer federal. Consolidating was a horrible idea too, as the loan she has is at 7% and completely interest front loaded, so she is just now really biting into the actual debt after years of just paying mostly interest. It sucks, and she is not alone, but I have yet to see a clear explanation of where the funds for a big relief plan would come from.

This is a lot like my experience, except multiply your wife's amount left to pay 4.

[Sour Masher]

This is a lot like my experience, except multiply your wife's amount left to pay 4.

Ouch, I'm hoping you went into a higher paying field than education.

[Teenwolf]

The student loan thing--I always assumed the relief would be modest, specifically 10k. I still think that will happen. Going big on this issue always had problems. We are talking a massive amount of money, and without new revenue coming in, it could potentially mean cutting tons of other aid programs that do even more good than SL debt relief. There is also an equity aspect in play. Fixing yesterday's problem is important, but not if the underlying disease of sky high education costs are not addressed going forward. It is a complex issue, and given the available resources, a 50K for all relief package is unlikely the best use of resources for this problem.

And for the record, while I ate Ramen noodles for 4 years and had only about 12k debt leaving college that I have paid off, my wife decided to live large by having a meal plan and decent housing, so had over 50k in loans, and 15 years later still has half of that due. She consolidated, though, so I doubt she would qualify for any relief, as her loan is no longer federal. Consolidating was a horrible idea too, as the loan she has is at 7% and completely interest front loaded, so she is just now really biting into the actual debt after years of just paying mostly interest. It sucks, and she is not alone, but I have yet to see a clear explanation of where the funds for a big relief plan would come from.

If you and your wife were unburdened from the $25K in student debt relief, while you're both in your prime earning years, where would you spend your added disposable income? Would you buy a different house, supercharge your retirement savings, save more for your kids education? Wouldn't the benefit of any of these massively helpful things equate true life-changing stimulus? Isn't that the point of the stimulus bill? If this recession is multiples worse than 2008, like 8x more devastating in terms of foreclosures, food insecurity, etc, the stimulus needs to be equivalent.

There are a lot of people in more desperate situations than yours with crushing student loan debt. Think of where they would spend that money. It goes directly back into the economy, the housing market, car sales, more education, the benefits go on and on.

Wouldn't these stimulus benefits have an effect of lowering the public dependence on social assistance, housing assistance, homelessness, food stamps, on and on?

You don't need to find a way to pay for it, it pays for itself.

As you say, it needs to be tied to tuition-free colleges and universities. I don't see how that's any less feasible than the current hellish reality. Student loan debt tripled in just over 10 years. It's not sustainable.

[Sour Masher]

If you and your wife were unburdened from the $25K in student debt relief, while you're both in your prime earning years, where would you spend your added disposable income? Would you buy a different house, supercharge your retirement savings, save more for your kids education? Wouldn't the benefit of any of these massively helpful things equate true life-changing stimulus? Isn't that the point of the stimulus bill? If this recession is multiples worse than 2008, like 8x more devastating in terms of foreclosures, food insecurity, etc, the stimulus needs to be equivalent.

There are a lot of people in more desperate situations than yours with crushing student loan debt. Think of where they would spend that money. It goes directly back into the economy, the housing market, car sales, more education, the benefits go on and on.

Wouldn't these stimulus benefits have an effect of lowering the public dependence on social assistance, housing assistance, homelessness, food stamps, on and on?

You don't need to find a way to pay for it, it pays for itself.

As you say, it needs to be tied to tuition-free colleges and universities. I don't see how that's any less feasible than the current hellish reality. Student loan debt tripled in just over 10 years. It's not sustainable.

My understanding is that it paying for itself is not how it works, though. Even if you calculate long term cost benefits, the specific money for the debt relief has to come from other specific sources. What is being left unsaid by some, I think, is where exactly that is coming from. Yes, it would be great if we didn't have that loan payment--we could use the savings to start overdue college funds for our kids. But if that debt relief cuts into other social programs that serve people even more in need, it is a net negative.

[Teenwolf]

My understanding is that it paying for itself is not how it works, though. Even if you calculate long term cost benefits, the specific money for the debt relief has to come from other specific sources. What is being left unsaid by some, I think, is where exactly that is coming from. Yes, it would be great if we didn't have that loan payment--we could use the savings to start overdue college funds for our kids. But if that debt relief cuts into other social programs that serve people even more in need, it is a net negative.

Cancel the last Trump tax cut, for one thing. $2 trillion over 10 years. I can't remember the other funding plans for these initiatives, but they're out there. It hardly matters, Biden won't fight for anything worth funding anyway.

Even the student debt relief plan is another corporate handout, where instead of forgiving federally held student loan debts, he's going to pay off the loan sharks holding a sledgehammer to Ken and your wife's kneecaps. Oh, goody. Incentivize and entrench this shitshow, pay off the thugs.

Hey Ken, maybe your wife could declare bankruptcy and spend only 7 years rebuilding credit instead of the rest of life under crushing debt! Oh wait... Biden dismantled the ability for people to declare bankruptcy on student loan debt years ago... oh, shucks.

Edit to add: I wish Ken's wife's debt were forgiven and his daughter had free healthcare. I wish him the best in overcoming these challenges.

[Bene Futuis]

The townhall was great, I thought, although Biden gets boring as hell. However, after careening from one crisis to the next seemingly every day with the other guy, boring is really fine with me right now. And how good is that guy in dealing directly with real people? He does a good job connecting and did it again here.

I thought his low points were when he vacillated about when everyone would receive the vaccine. I know the current administration was handed a flaming turd bag by the other guy but this is still of vital importance to millions of people. The rest of his handling of questions regarding the pandemic was extremely strong - he really came across as knowing his shit. Also the get back to school issue was very murky --- this is another issue of vital importance to everyone, particularly low-income families, and it would be nice to have some concrete plans. I am still against opening school but am increasingly more open to hearing argument to the contrary. Federal leadership coming from a place of expert opinion would be much appreciated.

I think those surprised by his positions on student loan forgiveness and universal healthcare have not been paying attention all along. I favor those concepts but he has never been a champion for either. He did not get elected by an overwhelming majority of Americans because of support for either. I don't love that, but it is what it is. I don't much respect the no true Scotsman approach some supposed allies seem to be taking.

And finally we have someone whose words don't have to be run through a goddamn translator in order to understand his stance. Anyone else tire of the other guy spewing forth platitudes and vacuous nonsense constantly and being forced to listen to right wing talk shows translate his nonsense into something they think the public will find palatable? And I assume that the right wing outrage machine (and some more supposed allies, too) has stopped with their "Biden isn't cognitively all there" campaign - that never was a reasonable stance but Biden has really put to rest any questions about senility or whatever. Not that we should have taken those stupid stances seriously from the start...

[heyelander]

And I assume that the right wing outrage machine (and some more supposed allies, too) has stopped with their "Biden isn't cognitively all there" campaign - that never was a reasonable stance but Biden has really put to rest any questions about senility or whatever. Not that we should have taken those stupid stances seriously from the start...

I still see them on the regular in my facebook feed.

[DMT]

On my FB feed (posted and like by two of my uncles) was a long letter written by a former marine about...Benghazi! With a seemingly darkened pic of Clinton making her look like a movie villain. Winning!

[revo]

In response to a friend's post about Trump's cult-like followers, one Trumptard said my friend "was in the cult of Biden." LOLOLOL, whaaat? This comes on the heels of Trumptards posting memes about lack of attendance at Biden events. LOL, these Trumptards!

[The Feral Slasher]

I still see them on the regular in my facebook feed.

Somewhat unrelated to this thread, Facebook and the Australian government are having a showdown. Regulation of FB and other tech monopolies is something that I hope will be addressed by the Biden administration.

[Teenwolf]

Somewhat unrelated to this thread, Facebook and the Australian government are having a showdown. Regulation of FB and other tech monopolies is something that I hope will be addressed by the Biden administration.

It's already happening. Several of the YouTube channels I watch have been demonetized, meaning their ability to make money as broadcasters has been revoked. Several have had videos pulled down for no reason, including a video of a protest to form a union, posted by Status Coup, the channel that captured the DC officer being crushed between doors in the insurrection.

YouTube changed their algorithms to stop showing people what they choose to watch in favor of blue check establishment sources in the last few years. So I watch independent news and the autoplay goes to MSNBC or CNN or whatever, even when I pay to subscribe there's no way to avoid the crap they shove down your throat.

I understand the Qanon nutjobs needed their supply chain disrupted, but they're using it as an opportunity to silence progressives.

Is this the kinda thing you're hoping for? You might as well go the China route and just prevent any Americans from accessing anything that could be considered "fake news". Then you'll be left with Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi speaking truth on trusted networks, like how the capitol Hill riots were another creation of Russia. Is that any less horrible than moaning about fucking Benghazi in 2021?

[The Feral Slasher]

Is this the kinda thing you're hoping for? You might as well go the China route and just prevent any Americans from accessing anything that could be considered "fake news". Then you'll be left with Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi speaking truth on trusted networks, like how the capitol Hill riots were another creation of Russia. Is that any less horrible than moaning about fucking Benghazi in 2021?

Not sure why you would think that is what I want. Your examples only support my point that FB has the power to destroy individuals/businesses (and even take on an entire large country) and that power is perhaps deserving of some government regulation.

[Teenwolf]

Not sure why you would think that is what I want. Your examples only support my point that FB has the power to destroy individuals/businesses (and even take on an entire large country) and that power is perhaps deserving of some government regulation.

Ok, it seems we're on the same page. My question "is this what you want?" wasn't intended as an accusation, just clumsily worded.

Would you support the US government buying tech platforms and running them as public utilities? I like the idea in theory, but I worry about a lack of government efficacy causing problems with how private platforms are run.

Do you know of any other specific regulations that could be implemented that you would theoretically support?

[chancellor]

Somewhat unrelated to this thread, Facebook and the Australian government are having a showdown.

Saw this. Will be very interesting to see how the Aussies respond.