Hernandez with the win??

[rhd]

Jonathan Hernandez (TEX) was credited w the win over the Giants today. Unless they changed the rules w/o my realizing it, this is impossible. I did not actually watch this game but the box score tells the story. The game was tied 5-5 after 6 innings. Jesse Chavez finished out the bottom of the 6th for Texas. Texas scored 4 runs in the top of the 7th and then Hernandez came on to pitch the next 2 innings. He did well, allowing no runs or hits and striking out 4 w 1 BB. Volquez pitched the 9th and Texas won 9-5. There's no way anyone but Chavez can get this win but the game has been over for over 2 hours and they still havent changed it. This isnt a situation where the starter gets taken out w the lead before completing 5 IP so they have to decide which reliever to give the win to. Actually, I'd like for Hernandez to get the win, since I just picked him up in my FAAB.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Rule 9.17
(c) The Official Scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the Official Scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the judgment of the Official Scorer.

Rule 9.17(c) Comment: The Official Scorer generally should, but is not required to, consider the appearance of a relief pitcher to be ineffective and brief if such relief pitcher pitches less than one inning and allows two or more earned runs to score (even if such runs are charged to a previous pitcher).

Rule 9.17(b) Comment provides guidance on choosing the winning pitcher from among several succeeding relief pitchers.

[Judge Jude]

that is the rule, but in the last 20 years I haven't noticed a single instance of an official scorer making a call like this.

Chavez allowed a 2-run HR that tied the game, so he was not effective.

but unless MLB announced before the season that they finally intend to enforce a previously-unenforced rule, this seems dumb.

(and I actually like the concept of Chavez not getting the W here; but all businesses should have a consistency that seems lacking here.)

[rhd]

that is the rule, but in the last 20 years I haven't noticed a single instance of an official scorer making a call like this.

Chavez allowed a 2-run HR that tied the game, so he was not effective.

but unless MLB announced before the season that they finally intend to enforce a previously-unenforced rule, this seems dumb.

(and I actually like the concept of Chavez not getting the W here; but all businesses should have a consistency that seems lacking here.)

Yeah, I didnt look up the rule, but I've never in my many years of watching baseball ever seen them award a win to a pitcher other than the one that was pitching when the winning team took the lead for good, except in a case where the starter didnt go 5 innings. IMO, the rule that a starter needs to finish 5 IP to get credit for a win should be done away with, especially now that the average start is well under 6 innings. Even better would be to stop awarding wins to pitchers entirely, but that will never happen. Well anyway, my roto team gets the win!

[Judge Jude]

I seem to remember this rule actually being used in the 1970s/1980s at times.

the idea of giving a W to a guy who had an ineffective outing like Chavez had not only starched some official scorer shorts, but iirc back then there was even a willingness to give the W to a guy a couple of RPs later in a high-scoring game.

[mgwiz22]

I seem to remember this rule actually being used in the 1970s/1980s at times.

the idea of giving a W to a guy who had an ineffective outing like Chavez had not only starched some official scorer shorts, but iirc back then there was even a willingness to give the W to a guy a couple of RPs later in a high-scoring game.

I agree. I cannot point to a particular instance but I do vaguely remember this rule being used .

[Kevin Seitzer]

It turns out it's applied every few years:

https://sabr.org/research/sabr-offic...ovember-2018-n

[rhd]

It turns out it's applied every few years:

https://sabr.org/research/sabr-offic...ovember-2018-n

Interesting. I had no idea. But only 7 instances in 57 years, not counting Hernandez' win. But I think it was very questionable and arbitrary to apply this rule in this case. Chavez blew the save, but pitchers get credited w the win after a blown save all the time. Chavez' outing was not terrible. He gave up a HR that tied the score but only 1 run was charged to him. He pitched 2/3 of an inning and preserved the tie. If I'm calculating it correctly, his "game score" was 46, where a score of 50 is neutral. I calculate Hernandez' game score to be 64. Very good but not spectacular. Not nearly enough difference between the two to take the win away and give it to someone else. But my roto team will take it!

[Judge Jude]

yes, the other examples cited either seemed much more egregious, or the modern official scorer is content to let the effective finisher get credit for a SV - with the W being an afterthought.

it's one of many MLB quirks and blunders, but obviously not ranking in the top 100 these days. so the blunder will stand.

[Ken]

It turns out it's applied every few years:

https://sabr.org/research/sabr-offic...ovember-2018-n

Now I'm curious, is Chavez's outing the best outing for a pitcher of record on the winning team who did not get the win? In the examples provided, the pitcher who missed out on a win gave up ~4 runs typically.

[Kevin Seitzer]

The recent cases where a relief pitcher gets the win and meets the Rule 9.17(c) definition of ineffective are only somewhat more numerous than the cases when he is not awarded the win. Both are pretty rare. I can find that it's happened four times since 2013:
Seth Maness - May 15, 2013
Jim Johnson - April 24, 2018
Xavier Cedeno - August 2, 2018
Chasen Shreve - July 22, 2019

In Shreve's case, the only subsequent pitcher got the save, so that may be a motivating factor for the scorer.