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GITH: Was it worth it?

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  • GITH: Was it worth it?

    If I recall correctly, and I'm not going to go looking in four-year-old threads to figure it out, you voted for Trump because you wanted to blow up the system, and if things failed because he was an incompetent, maybe that was for the best.

    How are you feeling now? It's 70 degrees in Antarctica and we're fighting the idea of climate change, our only international friends are Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the Philippines, and many of the insane things that have happened domestically are clearly horrible. On the other hand, if we had a normal president (especially a Democrat), maybe we wouldn't have Bernie and AOC and Warren stirring things up as much as they are and actually getting listened to, and maybe we really are heading down a path of non-centrist left-wing politics having a voice.

    It's easy for me to be blase about how bad things are because they mostly don't directly affect me, and I really don't know what I think here.
    In the best of times, our days are numbered, anyway. And it would be a crime against Nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that it put off enjoying those things for which we were presumably designed in the first place, and which the gravest statesmen and the hoarsest politicians hope to make available to all men in the end: I mean the opportunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to sit under trees, to read, to hit a ball and bounce the baby.

  • #2

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    • #3
      You forgot north Korea
      I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mjl View Post
        If I recall correctly, and I'm not going to go looking in four-year-old threads to figure it out, you voted for Trump because you wanted to blow up the system, and if things failed because he was an incompetent, maybe that was for the best.

        How are you feeling now? It's 70 degrees in Antarctica and we're fighting the idea of climate change, our only international friends are Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the Philippines, and many of the insane things that have happened domestically are clearly horrible. On the other hand, if we had a normal president (especially a Democrat), maybe we wouldn't have Bernie and AOC and Warren stirring things up as much as they are and actually getting listened to, and maybe we really are heading down a path of non-centrist left-wing politics having a voice.

        It's easy for me to be blase about how bad things are because they mostly don't directly affect me, and I really don't know what I think here.
        Let me correct you on a couple of this and point out where we disagree.

        I never voted for Trump, never said I voted for Trump. I just didn't Vote HRC--I voted Johnson in NV and HRC carried NV anyhow, Like I've mentioned many times--I vote my conscience no matter what, but in the scheme of things--it wouldn't matter if I did or not as every place I've lived and voted over the past 10 years has been Blue and will be no matter what I do/vote. (Currently back in Cali so there you go)

        If you're trying to attribute global warming to Trump, come on--really? I know he's poured some gas on an already out of control fire, but nothing that can't be undone if the Dems get back in the White House-It's also something that should have been addressed decades ago so it sits in the laps of MANY presidents Past. Our allies will come back once sanity is restored and IMO we shouldn't be so Palsý with Israel or Saudi Arabia in the first place. The things happening domestically--again, will stop once Democrats are back in charge. What has Trump done that's irreversible? It's horrible and he's a colossal piece of shit--but we can flush him in November right? North Korea? They're a nothing burger like they've always been--just an episode on Trumps reality TV Presidency--Stay Tuned for Finland next!

        What have we learned?

        That System everyone said I was so Naïve about (thinking it should be ethical and fair) has shown it is tremendously flawed and can be pretty much overthrown if the right circumstance presents itself----You guys still OK with leaving it as it is or do you want to see changes made to buttress it's ability to PREVENT future president/regimes from doing the same thing as Trump?

        I'll assume you've learned a lesson that expecting/demanding the system to be fair and ethical is now a bit higher on your priority lists. That's a good thing.

        We've learned that the GOP and pretty much every Republican in congress/Govts (both Federal and State) have NO moral compass, they not only didn't prevent Trump from doing shit things--they enabled and protected him to do it/ while he did it. We now now--there is NO HONOR among them None. and that there are those in our nation who will support him no matter how big a piece of shit he is--Knowing the moral character of those around you is another good thing--isn't it? Cuz though you used to think only old uncle Marty was a bit racist, you now know several of your friends from High School are as well, saves you time and energy as you no longer have to deal with those folks anymore.

        Like you--Trump's policies don't really affect me at all, he's just a horrible person I'd like to see gone and forgotten ASAP. And yeah, I thought there would be SOME of the GOP who'd stand up and neuters this idiot, but I never though (nor do I believe anyone thought) they'd all be sucking him off like they are/have been.

        So am I happy Trumps President and has done what he's done? Hell No, but I wouldn't have been happy if they'd rewarded HRC and the DNC's unethical and biased behavior by electing her.

        So, was it worth it? --Did we learn anything? If we did--then yes. If we didn't--we deserve whatever we might get.

        Like you said--It's given a TRUE opportunity to voices like Sanders and AOC, one they would not have had if HRC had been President. In fact--If she had won I could absolutely see her going out of her way to hurt Sanders politically as she's a vindictive person (which we're seeing in absolute clarity right now)
        If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

        Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
        Martin Luther King, Jr.

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        • #5
          You make some good points but ignore the tremendous suffering he has inflicted on vulnerable populations.
          If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
          - Terence McKenna

          Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

          How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DMT View Post
            You make some good points but ignore the tremendous suffering he has inflicted on vulnerable populations.
            I am well aware of these things and am not ignoring anything. It's part of the situation that will be remedied once democrats are back in charge.
            If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

            Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
            Martin Luther King, Jr.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
              I am well aware of these things and am not ignoring anything. It's part of the situation that will be remedied once democrats are back in charge.
              Traumatic events linger for victims much longer than four years.
              If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
              - Terence McKenna

              Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

              How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DMT View Post
                Traumatic events linger for victims much longer than four years.
                Agreed and had the DNC and HRC acted with integrity, it could have all been avoided.
                If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                Martin Luther King, Jr.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DMT View Post
                  You make some good points but ignore the tremendous suffering he has inflicted on vulnerable populations.
                  This is the part that gets me the most. But hey, if you're not a middle aged white guy...who cares. Trump rules!!

                  FUCK TRUMP.
                  "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
                    This is the part that gets me the most. But hey, if you're not a middle aged white guy...who cares. Trump rules!!

                    FUCK TRUMP.
                    On this, I think we all can agree and those who don't can eat a bag of dicks.
                    If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                    Martin Luther King, Jr.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DMT View Post
                      Traumatic events linger for victims much longer than four years.
                      As do supreme court justices.
                      I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by heyelander View Post
                        As do supreme court justices.
                        Exactly. Acting like Trump's damage can just be erased is absolutely silly. And the fact that people still act like it's their way or the highway when it comes to the nominee is just staggeringly misguided.
                        If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
                        - Terence McKenna

                        Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

                        How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          heh, you guys continue to ignore HOW and WHY Trump became POTUS. It wasn't Bernie or his supporters fault, though some like to throw the blame there--It was HRC, the DNC and anyone who didn't demand ethical behavior from the Nominees.

                          As for the SCOTUS, Obama could have appointed Garland to replace Scalia if he wanted to, but he chose (as always) to use the "system" as it had been used forever. The GOP immediately threw that shit out the window and have essentially done everything and anything they want.

                          Keep telling yourselves, that we who demand integrity and ethics in our Civil servants are the problem. It might make you feel better, but it's not the truth. And it won't win you the day come Nov.
                          If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                          Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                          Martin Luther King, Jr.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
                            Keep telling yourselves, that we who demand integrity and ethics in our Civil servants are the problem. It might make you feel better, but it's not the truth. And it won't win you the day come Nov.
                            What does "demand" mean in this situation? When my kids were toddlers, they would demand a lot of things from me. That didn't mean they were in control to get them. What have your demands gotten you? Sometimes I wish I lived in a world where I could demand that a lot of my fellow Americans acted or chose differently. But I don't. (And honestly, it's good the world doesn't work that way.)

                            Is there a place for action? Of course. Obviously Rosa Parks "demanded" that she not be forced to give up her seat, and she didn't get what she wanted in the short term, but in the long term, she made a huge difference. But I don't think every kind of demand is as effective as Rosa Parks' was. I don't see how your demands are going to be effective in this case, in either the short or long term. What are you doing that is motivating anyone else to want to change? Haranguing people usually doesn't motivate them very well.
                            "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer View Post
                              What does "demand" mean in this situation? When my kids were toddlers, they would demand a lot of things from me. That didn't mean they were in control to get them. What have your demands gotten you? Sometimes I wish I lived in a world where I could demand that a lot of my fellow Americans acted or chose differently. But I don't. (And honestly, it's good the world doesn't work that way.)

                              Is there a place for action? Of course. Obviously Rosa Parks "demanded" that she not be forced to give up her seat, and she didn't get what she wanted in the short term, but in the long term, she made a huge difference. But I don't think every kind of demand is as effective as Rosa Parks' was. I don't see how your demands are going to be effective in this case, in either the short or long term. What are you doing that is motivating anyone else to want to change? Haranguing people usually doesn't motivate them very well.
                              If you're inferring I'm childish in my demands, well then we can't have a conversation about this. But again--I will give you the benefit of the doubt. We can absolutely Demand what we think is right--how people should act, how we should be treated and as you stated--though it might not be a short term win, it is effective over the long hall.

                              How can demanding people act with honesty and integrity be wrong? No matter HOW you say it?

                              Let's be clear on this thread--it was an attempt to foist the ills of Trumps presidency on people like me who spoke out against HRC and the DNC. My responses are essentially--hey assholes who still won't blame Hillary for losing to this moron--This isn't Bernie's fault, nor those who supported him--It's everyone who capitulated their ethics to support HRC rather than make it clear that more was expected from her. It her fault for never admitting she cheated or apologizing to Sanders for how she and the DNC subverted the election. The extent of Trumps damage is 100% on the GOP and THIER capitulation and abandonment of Integrity and ethics.

                              I can and will demand things to be right, ethical and just--do I expect things to happen immediately or to change peoples minds this way--I'm not an idiot- so No, people are motivated to listen in many ways, not just mine or yours and we do seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to what we think is the best way to communicate things.

                              Maybe it's what I do for a living and the mindset I exist in daily. As a WPT/WSOP poker tournament director, my #1 priority is to protect the integrity of the game. The game has a set of rules (TDA) that are revised every 2 years and of those 70 plus rules (with subsets and on and on) MOST of them are in place to protect the integrity of the game. Cheats, Liars, Angle shooters ect will be removed from the Tournament--I am the guy that makes those decisions--I'm the final and Ultimate word. I have discretion to implement the rule or even rule contrary to the rules if I choose to do so--I don't think I've ruled contrary to the written intent on more than a handful of occasions over my career on the floor. I know the intent of these rules, why and how they were written because I'm a member of TDA, who writes the rule--friends with serval of the top TDs in the Business (who are also board members of TDA) and if I'm unsure of the exact ruling (poker can present some interesting situations) I have them all on speed dial should I need clarification or just to assure myself I made the right call.

                              My life is about getting it right--doing the right thing-making sure others do the right thing-and punishing those who don't.

                              I think that's it right there--I punish those who don't do the right thing and in my life--it's me who decides what that is.

                              Does it lead to me being Mr. popularity? Nope--But you know what you get with me and can depend on me always being that guy.

                              So yea--I thing we should demand people to act with integrity and never capitulate and that those who don't deserve what they get--in this instance Trump. He's their punishment, their penance and hopefully next time when they're faced with choosing Integrity over an easier/ more incremental/palatable choice--they'll demand Integrity and ethics--if not...well then, Enjoy 4 more years of Trump because you helped put him there.
                              If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                              Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                              Martin Luther King, Jr.

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