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Thread: Pondering Political Parties.

  1. #11
    Hall of Famer B-Fly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMT View Post
    And address climate change, which the Trump party thinks is a hoax.
    I view that as part of "the government can and must take action to … reduce suffering".

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Fly View Post
    I view that as part of "the government can and must take action to … reduce suffering".
    On a world wide stage or only within our borders?

  3. #13
    Hall of Famer B-Fly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    On a world wide stage or only within our borders?
    That gets at the means and priorities debate that I referenced in my earlier answer, but on climate change I think it's na´ve to think that it can be addressed by individual countries within their own borders. I think it poses a threat to all peoples and requires international collaboration around solutions.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Fly View Post
    That gets at the means and priorities debate that I referenced in my earlier answer, but on climate change I think it's na´ve to think that it can be addressed by individual countries within their own borders. I think it poses a threat to all peoples and requires international collaboration around solutions.
    How can we get China and India to buy in?

  5. #15
    Hall of Famer B-Fly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nots View Post
    How can we get China and India to buy in?
    India is a democracy, so the electorate there needs to insist upon it, just as in the US. As for China, that's tougher. But if all the other world powers are coming to the table, it should put some real pressure on Beijing to step up. They are already proving ready, willing and able to try to profit from the green energy sector, so they may be able to align their economic interests with global environmental interests.

  6. #16
    All Star The Feral Slasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Fly View Post
    India is a democracy, so the electorate there needs to insist upon it, just as in the US. As for China, that's tougher. But if all the other world powers are coming to the table, it should put some real pressure on Beijing to step up. They are already proving ready, willing and able to try to profit from the green energy sector, so they may be able to align their economic interests with global environmental interests.
    I think that is a lot to ask, many of them are just struggling to survive. It's unfortunate that they are also suffering so much from the effects of global warming.

    https://www.soschildrensvillages.ca/...y-in-india-602

    Two-thirds of people in India live in poverty: 68.8% of the Indian population lives on less than $2 a day. Over 30% even have less than $1.25 per day available


    Wikipedia doesn't paint such a bleak picture. (Lol, don't trust the first link in a Google search)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India
    Last edited by The Feral Slasher; 02-10-2020 at 03:37 PM.

  7. #17
    All Star heyelander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
    I think that is a lot to ask, many of them are just struggling to survive. It's unfortunate that they are also suffering so much from the effects of global warming.

    https://www.soschildrensvillages.ca/...y-in-india-602

    Two-thirds of people in India live in poverty: 68.8% of the Indian population lives on less than $2 a day. Over 30% even have less than $1.25 per day available
    It's like asking Brazil not to cut down trees when it's their greatest natural resource... you need to figure out how to monetize oxygen on a global scale or something.
    I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

  8. #18
    All Star The Feral Slasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Fly View Post
    India is a democracy, so the electorate there needs to insist upon it, just as in the US. As for China, that's tougher. But if all the other world powers are coming to the table, it should put some real pressure on Beijing to step up. They are already proving ready, willing and able to try to profit from the green energy sector, so they may be able to align their economic interests with global environmental interests.
    There is a lot of interesting stuff on global warming and poverty in India. How do you get the electorate to insist on it is a good question ?

  9. #19
    In the general sense, the Democratic party now reminds me of the Republicans about 15 years ago. They also had a disruptive change of generation, except their happened more during a midterm election. Still, there was carry over to 2008 and the old guard candidate got smoked. Other than Mayor Pete and arguably Bloomberg, they are all old guard.

    J
    Ad Astra per Aspera

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  10. #20
    Journeyman Don Quixote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
    So, the whole--What's best for the Party thing, coupled with a few articles stating--this is a fight for the heart and soul of the Party (from both Sanders and Biden camps) got me thinking--What DO the Parties stand for anymore? Here's my take (a non-factual, jest my thoughts and observations not to be misconstrued as anything absolute, opinion)

    From my perspective, there are 4 distinct groups in play in todays politics. The Progressive Democrats, The Centrist Democrats, The Centrist Republicans and The Trump Republicans.

    Centrist Dems and Repubs are closest in their desire to keep things as they've been, embrace incremental change and both share similar fiscal beliefs. They differ on social issues, some so keen they'll never form consensus

    Progressive and Centrist Dems are on board with social issues, but differ in what role the Govt should play in things, Fiscal restraint and Changing/keeping the status Quo. I believe they can overcome differences if the Center moves toward the progressive platform as I don't see the Progressives budging from theirs and I believe Centrist Dems are less hardline about their differences with the Progressives than the Centrist Repubs are with their social differences with the Centrist Dems.

    The Trumpers are their own group of special folks who won't ever get along with anyone. That they're in power right now is an aberration. However, as long as they think they're important, they can wield some power, especially if Centrist Repubs keep enabling their agenda to get a few things they want.

    Now some will say, the Progressives and Trumpers aren't really Dems or Republicans, but what defines a party? Who defines a Party? I believe that whomever wins this election will make that determination. If it's Sanders--he'll define the Democratic platform going forward changing it forever, if it's Trump--he'll define the GOP platform essentially obliterating what WAS the Republican party. If it's Biden or another D Centrist, the Democratic/Republican Parties as have been know, should survive.

    In any case, this is indeed an important election in the History of our country, that--I believe--Can't be overstated.

    Just my thought's and ramblings--please feel free to share, contradict and pontificate your ideas/worries/hopes for the future of Political parties in this country.
    "Forever" is a long time. Being a relative old fart, I've seen a lot of "permanent change" and "death of the [fill in the blank] Party" over the years, including--

    --the death of the Republicans in 1964
    --the "permanent" lurch left of the Democrats in 1972
    --the death of the Republicans in 1976
    --the "permanent" lurch right of the Republicans in 1980
    --the death of the Democrats in 1984
    --the death of the Republicans in 2008

    Also--I believe the Centrist Dems don't have nearly the problem with the "progressive" Dems that the "progressives" have with...everybody, including the centrist Dems. By their nature the far wings are more stubborn than the centrists.
    Only the madman is absolutely sure. -Robert Anton Wilson, novelist (1932-2007)

    Faith is believing what you know ain't so. -Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)

    A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
    -- William James

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