Baseball Hall of Fame voting

[revo]

If Walker's a HOFer, than Todd Helton has to be a HOFer too. Helton received just 29% of the vote this year.

[Judge Jude]

Walker got into the Hall of Merit on his first try, iirc and fwiw.

Helton just got in this year, as the 4th of 4 (way behind Jeter but almost even with Luis Tiant and Andruw Jones. Helton placed in a near dead-heat with Kenny Lofton, who will coast in next year).

as for HOF, Schilling and Dick Allen would be a combustible pair of ex-Phillies in 2021.

[TS Garp]

If Walker's a HOFer, than Todd Helton has to be a HOFer too. Helton received just 29% of the vote this year.

I think Helton's case is much more complicated than Walker's. Walker remained an excellent hitter and very valuable player throughout his career. Look at his OPS+ (lifetime 141) through the latter part of his career (age 30 and on) --

178
158
164
110
151
121
154
144
130

Here's what Helton (lifetime 133) did from age 30 on:

165
144
118
133
99
127
87
117
89
89

Helton's peak was incredible but he never finished higher than 5th in the MVP voting. Helton's late career resembles late career Joe Mauer (good average, great OBP, minimal power) and that was still with the advantage of Coors. Walker had his best seasons in Colorado, of course, but he also performed very well in Montreal and St. Louis, which helps soften the "he was a creation of Coors narrative." He was also a more well-rounded player than Helton and has 3 batting titles and 7 all-star appearances as opposed to 1 and 5 from Helton, respectively. I think a player with an amazing but short peak who put up his best numbers during the steroid era (as an aside, the drop off in his power after the steroid era ended is also likely to raise more eyebrows among writers) and never played outside of Coors may be a tough sell.

[TS Garp]

I'd personally like to see Dick Allen and Dale Murphy in the Hall before Helton.

[DMT]

If Walker's a HOFer, than Todd Helton has to be a HOFer too. Helton received just 29% of the vote this year.

Why? I think Walker is a no-brainer. Helton would be a wait-and-see for me, but I wouldn't have voted for him this year.

[chancellor]

I'd personally like to see Dick Allen and Dale Murphy in the Hall before Helton.

Dick Allen for sure. Him being out - especially in light of guys like Puckett in - is awful.

[revo]

Why? I think Walker is a no-brainer. Helton would be a wait-and-see for me, but I wouldn't have voted for him this year.

Because they're very similar players with very similar circumstances.

Walker: .313/.400/.565
Helton: .316/.414/.539

Walker: 1355 R, 383 HR, 1311 RBI
Helton: 1401 R, 369 HR, 1406 RBI

Walker: 141 OPS+, 72.7 WAR
Helton: 131 OPS+, 61.2 WAR

[Judge Jude]

Walker's greater defensive value and success before and after Coors makes him a clearly better candidate - offensively and even moreso overall.

I think Helton will get in eventually.

[onejayhawk]

Because they're very similar players with very similar circumstances.

Walker: .313/.400/.565
Helton: .316/.414/.539

Walker: 1355 R, 383 HR, 1311 RBI
Helton: 1401 R, 369 HR, 1406 RBI

Walker: 141 OPS+, 72.7 WAR
Helton: 131 OPS+, 61.2 WAR

I'm with Judge Jude. The value of the defense leans heavily to Walker and he spent the first six years of his career in a pitcher's park. They are really as similar as the hitting stats seem to indicate. There is a clear difference.

J

[revo]

Walker's greater defensive value and success before and after Coors makes him a clearly better candidate - offensively and even moreso overall.

I think Helton will get in eventually.

Which is my point, thanks.

I thought Walker was a fringy candidate, one that is usually reserved for the Veteran's Committee. Now that he's in, he may open/re-open the door for others who weren't even given a sniff or thought to have much of a chance:
- Jim Edmonds
- Matt Holliday
- Lance Berkman
- Luis Gonzalez
- Fred McGriff
- Carlos Delgado
- Rafael Palmeiro
- Bobby Grich
- Kenny Lofton
- Dwight Evans
- Graig Nettles


etc etc

[Ken]

Which is my point, thanks.

I thought Walker was a fringy candidate, one that is usually reserved for the Veteran's Committee. Now that he's in, he may open/re-open the door for others who weren't even given a sniff or thought to have much of a chance:
- Jim Edmonds
- Matt Holliday
- Lance Berkman
- Luis Gonzalez
- Fred McGriff
- Carlos Delgado
- Rafael Palmeiro
- Bobby Grich
- Kenny Lofton
- Dwight Evans
- Graig Nettles


etc etc

If Palmeiro gets in and Bonds/Clemens do not I'd love to hear the rationale. Same offense, much worse player.

[Judge Jude]

HALL OF MERIT STATUS

- Jim Edmonds IN
- Matt Holliday NOT ELIGIBLE
- Lance Berkman GETS VOTES
- Luis Gonzalez DOESN'T GET VOTES
- Fred McGriff GETS VOTES
- Carlos Delgado DOESN'T GET VOTES
- Rafael Palmeiro IN
- Bobby Grich IN, EASILY
- Kenny Lofton FIRST RUNNERUP THS YEAR, GETS IN NEXT YEAR
- Dwight Evans IN
- Graig Nettles IN

[revo]

If Palmeiro gets in and Bonds/Clemens do not I'd love to hear the rationale. Same offense, much worse player.

Well, Palmeiro will have to wait for the Vet's Committee, as he fell off the ballot in 2014, when the backlash towards PED users was at its peak.

[TS Garp]

Which is my point, thanks.

I thought Walker was a fringy candidate, one that is usually reserved for the Veteran's Committee. Now that he's in, he may open/re-open the door for others who weren't even given a sniff or thought to have much of a chance:
- Jim Edmonds
- Matt Holliday
- Lance Berkman
- Luis Gonzalez
- Fred McGriff
- Carlos Delgado
- Rafael Palmeiro
- Bobby Grich
- Kenny Lofton
- Dwight Evans
- Graig Nettles


etc etc

I totally disagree that Walker was a fringy candidate but there are some very deserving names on that list (most notably Grich, Evans, and Edmonds) so if Walker's induction helps them, that's great.

[The Feral Slasher]

If Palmeiro gets in and Bonds/Clemens do not I'd love to hear the rationale. Same offense, much worse player.

So you are claiming Bonds/Clemens are much better defensively ??