Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 73

Thread: NFL PLayoffs

  1. #41
    Journeyman Ken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    4,924
    Quote Originally Posted by madducks View Post
    I have to admit that i was surprised when Swann was voted into the HOF because i didn't think he had the career numbers that he needed. But, the guy was huge when it counted most in the playoffs and Super Bowls.
    Swann had 907 yards and 9 TD in 16 playoff games. Pearson had 1131 and 8 in 22 playoffs games.

    Quote Originally Posted by madducks View Post
    Speaking of Pro Bowls, Andy Russell was selected 7 times, L.C. Greenwood 6 times, and Donnie Shell 5 times. So, i'm not the only one who considered them among the best of their era. Their opponents did too.
    No doubt. But the Steelers are already far over-represented. Steve Atwater made 8 pro bowls and he isn't in the hall.

  2. #42
    All Star madducks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Down the river ..................from PNC Park
    Posts
    5,061
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    That's a great point, I'm glad you brought it up. Pearson was a part of 113 regular season wins in his career, and an additional 13 playoff wins. Swann was a part of 82 regular season wins and 13 in the playoffs. So Pearson was the clear "winner".
    Yeah, but Swann's teams beat Pearson's teams in Super Bowls X & XIII. Plus Swann was the MVP in Super Bowl X.

  3. #43
    Journeyman Ken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    4,924
    Quote Originally Posted by madducks View Post
    Yeah, but Swann's teams beat Pearson's teams in Super Bowls X & XIII. Plus Swann was the MVP in Super Bowl X.
    Both players are decorated superbowl winners. If you really think those 2 games represent the relative careers of each player then it's not even close to worth arguing. There's no realistic hall of fame standards where Swann deserves to get in and Pearson doesn't. It takes some mind bending homerism to suggest otherwise.

    Somehow Bruce Smith still made the HoF despite losing 4 superbowls in a row

  4. #44
    All Star madducks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Down the river ..................from PNC Park
    Posts
    5,061
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Both players are decorated superbowl winners. If you really think those 2 games represent the relative careers of each player then it's not even close to worth arguing. There's no realistic hall of fame standards where Swann deserves to get in and Pearson doesn't. It takes some mind bending homerism to suggest otherwise.

    Somehow Bruce Smith still made the HoF despite losing 4 superbowls in a row
    I'm not disagreeing that Pearson belongs in the HOF. Just bringing up some things that voters may have considered when voting in Swann.

  5. #45
    Administrator revo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fuggedabboutit
    Posts
    19,714
    I've always felt NFL HOF voters used anecdotes and legend more than anything else when it came to the vote. After all, offensive linemen didn't have any stats to fall back on like they do now, thanks to sites like Pro Football Focus, and players who were widely considered to be "great" actually weren't (i.e. Joe Namath), but got a pass because of their stature and legend status.

    So Swann may have been a "sure-fire" HOFer because of his highlight reel catches combined with his stats, while Drew Pearson was more a workman-like receiver who didn't show up as often on NFL Films.

  6. #46
    sigh.

    Joe Namath is one of the five most important figures in NFL history (you can look it up). And I think there are more than 5 HOFers.

    even if just considering on-field, modern QB stats are useless vs the past. "Completion" percentages are up dramatically because tosses to players who are -2 to 2 yards to the line of scrimmages count for such a large portion of that.

    Namath's best ranks in passing yardage were: 1-1-1-2-2-3-6-10

    his yards per catch was 14.7 (11th all-time with 3 1sts), compared to 11.7 for Brady and for Peyton Manning. almost like they played in different eras!

    now, none of that makes Namath a top-5 all-time in QB play only.

    but his popularity transcended the sport and was key to making the NFL into the sport it is today. if he wasn't in the HOF, there wouldn't be much point in having one.
    Last edited by Judge Jude; 01-14-2020 at 02:00 PM.
    entering 37th yr in same 12-team NL 5x5
    horrendous final week dropped me from a shot at 3rd to 6th
    won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

    2020 candidates (keep up to 11)
    SP Scherzer 44, Samardzija 1, CSmith 1, Cueto 1, Marquez 10, Eflin 10
    RP Stanek 8
    C Realmuto 13, C Posey 12, 1B Votto 27, 1O Belt 10, 1O Beaty 10, SS BCrawford 9
    OF CDickerson 17, O1 Cooper 10, Dyson 8

  7. #47
    Journeyman Ken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    4,924
    Quote Originally Posted by revo View Post
    I've always felt NFL HOF voters used anecdotes and legend more than anything else when it came to the vote. After all, offensive linemen didn't have any stats to fall back on like they do now, thanks to sites like Pro Football Focus, and players who were widely considered to be "great" actually weren't (i.e. Joe Namath), but got a pass because of their stature and legend status.

    So Swann may have been a "sure-fire" HOFer because of his highlight reel catches combined with his stats, while Drew Pearson was more a workman-like receiver who didn't show up as often on NFL Films.
    You are undoubtedly correct in your thinking here.

    The odd part with Pearson is:

    a) He played for the Cowboys, who got more attention than they deserved.
    b) He was a part of a team that went to multiple Superbowls and won one.
    c) As a WR he wasn't "hidden" like a lineman might be.
    d) He has a big personality.
    e) He actually is a big part of the NFL Films lore, being the recipient of the first Hail Mary pass (certainly not the first of it's type, but the first with that name).

  8. #48
    Welcome to the Big Leagues, Kid TS Garp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,548
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    You are undoubtedly correct in your thinking here.

    The odd part with Pearson is:

    a) He played for the Cowboys, who got more attention than they deserved.
    b) He was a part of a team that went to multiple Superbowls and won one.
    c) As a WR he wasn't "hidden" like a lineman might be.
    d) He has a big personality.
    e) He actually is a big part of the NFL Films lore, being the recipient of the first Hail Mary pass (certainly not the first of it's type, but the first with that name).
    Revo is spot-on that narratives (sometimes accurate and sometimes not) tend to emerge around certain players. The "Art Monk should be in the HOF/it's a travesty that Art Monk isn't in the HOF" was a powerful one. I don't think he's a clear cut Hall of Famer, personally, although I don't have a big issue with him being in, either. But it's a good question as to why Pearson hasn't gotten that same level of attention. It could simply come down to the way NFL Films covered players like Pearson and Carmichael as opposed to Swann and Monk, or it could be more random. It's an interesting question that might be hard to untangle but I do think the narrative/storytelling element can't be discounted.

  9. #49
    Administrator revo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fuggedabboutit
    Posts
    19,714
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Jude View Post
    sigh.

    Joe Namath is one of the five most important figures in NFL history (you can look it up). And I think there are more than 5 HOFers.

    even if just considering on-field, modern QB stats are useless vs the past. "Completion" percentages are up dramatically because tosses to players who are -2 to 2 yards to the line of scrimmages count for such a large portion of that.

    Namath's best ranks in passing yardage were: 1-1-1-2-2-3-6-10

    his yards per catch was 14.7 (11th all-time with 3 1sts), compared to 11.7 for Brady and for Peyton Manning. almost like they played in different eras!

    now, none of that makes Namath a top-5 all-time in QB play only.

    but his popularity transcended the sport and was key to making the NFL into the sport it is today. if he wasn't in the HOF, there wouldn't be much point in having one.
    And he also threw 173 TD passes.....to 220 picks. Now granted, it was a different game then, but still. A turnover was still a turnover in 1969.

    But you're making my point -- it was his popularity that cemented his ticket to the HOF, and that happened with many other players. It also doesn't hurt that he was the first AFL player to have his team win the SB, nor the slow-motion finger point, nor the pic of him lounging by the pool, etc. Arguably, he had two "great" seasons by that era's standards, and he missed almost three full seasons right in the prime of his career.

    Still, this isn't about Namath, just that legend sometimes superseded stats when it came to HOF votes.

  10. #50
    well, Namath is unique.

    not a single player in the history of the NFL was as important as he was. the notion of a narrative helping some players get in, and a lack of one hurting others, doesn't really apply to Namath. his influence on the merger and the explosion of the sport went far beyond that.
    entering 37th yr in same 12-team NL 5x5
    horrendous final week dropped me from a shot at 3rd to 6th
    won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

    2020 candidates (keep up to 11)
    SP Scherzer 44, Samardzija 1, CSmith 1, Cueto 1, Marquez 10, Eflin 10
    RP Stanek 8
    C Realmuto 13, C Posey 12, 1B Votto 27, 1O Belt 10, 1O Beaty 10, SS BCrawford 9
    OF CDickerson 17, O1 Cooper 10, Dyson 8

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •