NFL PLayoffs

[revo]

I think that the late Steelers defensive end L.C. Greenwood has been overlooked long enough. Probably linebacker Andy Russell and safety Donnie Shell too. But, i doubt if voters go for more than one senior player per team.

Well, only Donnie Shell made the final cut, so he's got a chance. Here's the 20 finalists, of whom 10 will be chosen:

Cliff Branch, WR – 1972-1985 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Harold Carmichael, WR – 1971-1983 Philadelphia Eagles, 1984 Dallas Cowboys
Jim Covert, T – 1983-1990 Chicago Bears
Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings
Bobby Dillon, S – 1952-59 Green Bay Packers
LaVern Dilweg, E – 1926 Milwaukee Badgers, 1927-1934 Green Bay Packers
Ox Emerson, G/LB/C – 1931-37 Portsmouth Spartans/Detroit Lions, 1938 Brooklyn Dodgers
Randy Gradishar, LB – 1974-1983 Denver Broncos
Cliff Harris, S – 1970-79 Dallas Cowboys
Winston Hill, T – 1963-1976 New York Jets, 1977 Los Angeles Rams
Cecil Isbell, TB/DB/HB – 1938-1942 Green Bay Packers
Alex Karras, DT – 1958-1962, 1964-1970 Detroit Lions
Verne Lewellen, HB – 1924-27, 1928-1932 Green Bay Packers, 1927 New York Yankees
Tommy Nobis, LB – 1966-1976 Atlanta Falcons
Drew Pearson, WR – 1973-1983 Dallas Cowboys
Donnie Shell, S – 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers
Duke Slater, T – 1922 Milwaukee Badgers, 1922-25 Rock Island Independents, 1926-1931 Chicago Cardinals
Mac Speedie, E – 1946-1952 Cleveland Browns [AAFC/NFL]
Ed Sprinkle, DE/LB/E – 1944-1955 Chicago Bears
Al Wistert, OT/DT/G – 1943 Phil-Pitt, 1944-1951 Philadelphia Eagles


And here are the Contributors, of whom 3 will be chosen:

Bud Adams, Owner – 1960-2013 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans
Ralph Hay, Owner – 1918-1922 Canton Bulldogs
Frank “Bucko” Kilroy, Scout/General Manager/Executive – 1960-61 Philadelphia Eagles, 1962-64 Washington Redskins, 1965-1970 Dallas Cowboys, 1971-2006 New England Patriots
Art McNally, Official/Administrator – 1959-2015 National Football League
Art Modell, Owner – 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2011 Baltimore Ravens
Clint Murchison, Founder/Owner – 1960-1983 Dallas Cowboys
Steve Sabol, Administrator/President – 1964-2012 NFL Films
Seymour Siwoff, Owner/President – 1952-2019 Elias Sports Bureau
Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League
George Young, Contributor/General Manager – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League

Wow, how is Bud Adams not in already? He only founded the AFL!


As fine a selection as Johnson and Cowher were, it's very surprising that legendary innovator Don Coryell (also one of the coaching finalists) didn't make it and routinely doesn't make the cut.

[Judge Jude]

Right now, there are only 4 members of that defense in the HOF. And 5 from the offense. Plus coach Chuck Noll.

Redskins went 3-1 in the Super Bowl in a span of 9 years with frankly more dominant teams. I don't know how many of them got in. none on the latest list.

[Ken]

Right now, there are only 4 members of that defense in the HOF. And 5 from the offense. Plus coach Chuck Noll.

I don't think the word *only* fits well here. 9 players from the same team is excessive when compared to other great teams who have far less ( with just as deserving players ).

[Ken]

Redskins went 3-1 in the Super Bowl in a span of 9 years with frankly more dominant teams. I don't know how many of them got in. none on the latest list.

Green
Grim
Monk
Riggins
(Gibbs)

[revo]

Redskins went 3-1 in the Super Bowl in a span of 9 years with frankly more dominant teams. I don't know how many of them got in. none on the latest list.

Darrell Green, Russ Grimm, John Riggins, Art Monk. How is Joe Theismann not in? They also had a bunch of All-Pro caliber talent who could be considered down the road (Dave Butz, Joe Jacoby, Dexter Manley, Charles Mann, etc.)


In 1982, I was a 12-year old living in Reston, Virginia -- when it was more a nice community populated mainly by government/military workers and before it got built up as a tech powerhouse town -- and a number of Washington Redskins lived in the townhouse development where I lived, right on Reston GC. Tight ends Don Warren and Clint Didier once passed by while we played tackle football (they were golfing and our backyards were near the 1st tee) and stopped by to play with us. Alvin Garrett lived across the street and we once washed his Corvette. My friends' mother worked for the Redskins and rented out her basement to Warren, then Richie Pettibon, who was then the Defensive Coordinator. We always used to see Calvin Hill jogging on the HS track.

But the coup de grace was when the NFL strike hit and the players got locked out. My school, Langston Hughes IS, was part of a new three-school complex (South Lakes HS and Terraset Elementary making the other two) which shared a number of huge athletic fields. The players organized workouts and chose our school complex as their practice facility! For a couple of glorious weeks in the fall of 1982, every day we'd leave school and watch them practice. I met and got autographs from Joe Theismann, Russ Grimm, Dave Butz, Joe Jacoby, and a handful of other players and sportscasters (George Michael was a douche, from what I remember). I can clearly remember Mark Moseley kicking FGs right outside one of my classrooms during the day. For a 12-year old football fanatic, it was an unbelievable experience.

A few years back, the NFL Network ran a special on the 1982 Redskins, similar to the 30 for 30s on ESPN, and there it was! They showed some videos of the lockout practices. All the kids on the athletic fields watching the Redskins practice, and I even think I caught a glimpse of my 12-year old self!

[Judge Jude]

good story!

Jacoby is the biggest whiff there. Theismann was not a great QB, and his NFL punting (not kidding!) is only a marginal boost.

and yeah, "only 9 Steelers" from that era is an overbid.

[Ken]

I wonder why Lynn Swann was selected to the HoF 18 years ago and Drew Pearson still isn't in.

Swann was selected for the Pro Bowl three times, and he was an all pro once. Pearson was selected for the Pro Bowl three times, and he was an all pro three times.

Swann had 5462 yards in 116 games (47 yards per game) with 51 TDs. Pearson had 7822 in 156 (50 yards per game) with 48.

I guess the Steelers just didn't have enough players in the hall of fame.

[The Feral Slasher]

I wonder why Lynn Swann was selected to the HoF 18 years ago and Drew Pearson still isn't in.

Swann was selected for the Pro Bowl three times, and he was an all pro once. Pearson was selected for the Pro Bowl three times, and he was an all pro three times.

Swann had 5462 yards in 116 games (47 yards per game) with 51 TDs. Pearson had 7822 in 156 (50 yards per game) with 48.

I guess the Steelers just didn't have enough players in the hall of fame.

Winners win

[madducks]

I wonder why Lynn Swann was selected to the HoF 18 years ago and Drew Pearson still isn't in.

Swann was selected for the Pro Bowl three times, and he was an all pro once. Pearson was selected for the Pro Bowl three times, and he was an all pro three times.

Swann had 5462 yards in 116 games (47 yards per game) with 51 TDs. Pearson had 7822 in 156 (50 yards per game) with 48.

I guess the Steelers just didn't have enough players in the hall of fame.

I have to admit that i was surprised when Swann was voted into the HOF because i didn't think he had the career numbers that he needed. But, the guy was huge when it counted most in the playoffs and Super Bowls. Speaking of Pro Bowls, Andy Russell was selected 7 times, L.C. Greenwood 6 times, and Donnie Shell 5 times. So, i'm not the only one who considered them among the best of their era. Their opponents did too.

[Ken]

Winners win

That's a great point, I'm glad you brought it up. Pearson was a part of 113 regular season wins in his career, and an additional 13 playoff wins. Swann was a part of 82 regular season wins and 13 in the playoffs. So Pearson was the clear "winner".

[Ken]

I have to admit that i was surprised when Swann was voted into the HOF because i didn't think he had the career numbers that he needed. But, the guy was huge when it counted most in the playoffs and Super Bowls.

Swann had 907 yards and 9 TD in 16 playoff games. Pearson had 1131 and 8 in 22 playoffs games.

Speaking of Pro Bowls, Andy Russell was selected 7 times, L.C. Greenwood 6 times, and Donnie Shell 5 times. So, i'm not the only one who considered them among the best of their era. Their opponents did too.

No doubt. But the Steelers are already far over-represented. Steve Atwater made 8 pro bowls and he isn't in the hall.

[madducks]

That's a great point, I'm glad you brought it up. Pearson was a part of 113 regular season wins in his career, and an additional 13 playoff wins. Swann was a part of 82 regular season wins and 13 in the playoffs. So Pearson was the clear "winner".

Yeah, but Swann's teams beat Pearson's teams in Super Bowls X & XIII. Plus Swann was the MVP in Super Bowl X.

[Ken]

Yeah, but Swann's teams beat Pearson's teams in Super Bowls X & XIII. Plus Swann was the MVP in Super Bowl X.

Both players are decorated superbowl winners. If you really think those 2 games represent the relative careers of each player then it's not even close to worth arguing. There's no realistic hall of fame standards where Swann deserves to get in and Pearson doesn't. It takes some mind bending homerism to suggest otherwise.

Somehow Bruce Smith still made the HoF despite losing 4 superbowls in a row

[madducks]

Both players are decorated superbowl winners. If you really think those 2 games represent the relative careers of each player then it's not even close to worth arguing. There's no realistic hall of fame standards where Swann deserves to get in and Pearson doesn't. It takes some mind bending homerism to suggest otherwise.

Somehow Bruce Smith still made the HoF despite losing 4 superbowls in a row

I'm not disagreeing that Pearson belongs in the HOF. Just bringing up some things that voters may have considered when voting in Swann.

[revo]

I've always felt NFL HOF voters used anecdotes and legend more than anything else when it came to the vote. After all, offensive linemen didn't have any stats to fall back on like they do now, thanks to sites like Pro Football Focus, and players who were widely considered to be "great" actually weren't (i.e. Joe Namath), but got a pass because of their stature and legend status.

So Swann may have been a "sure-fire" HOFer because of his highlight reel catches combined with his stats, while Drew Pearson was more a workman-like receiver who didn't show up as often on NFL Films.