Atheists in Iowa

[Steve 2.0]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/...NhfB1vdbI9uOJ0

[B-Fly]

I'm a big fan of friendly atheism. Seriously, though, the confrontational, "angry" atheism of Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris and Maher serves/served a purpose, but also stereotyped atheism and secularism in a harsh light of sarcasm, scorn, anger and aggression. I personally find no conflict in my mind/heart between my lack of belief in G-d and peace/happiness/kindness/empathy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/oliver-burkeman-column/2015/mar/03/are-atheists-all-angry

And defaulting to a pluralistic and secular (or non-denominational) "Happy Holidays" is not waging "war" on Christmas or Christians, but rather is born of a desire to be open and welcoming of all, extending brotherhood/sisterhood equally to all.

[TranaGreg]

... And defaulting to a pluralistic and secular (or non-denominational) "Happy Holidays" is not waging "war" on Christmas or Christians, but rather is born of a desire to be open and welcoming of all, extending brotherhood/sisterhood equally to all.

Preach it brother B-Fly!!!!!

[Gregg]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/...NhfB1vdbI9uOJ0

I see the atheists won 7-1.

Given this victory speech:

"Considering there were only two secular displays in the Capitol this time last year, the atheists have clearly figured out how to play the game this time around. Better to have their well-wishes than another Nativity scene shoved down everyone’s throat."

I am pretty sure their Happy Holidays are not meant for me.

[DMT]

I see the atheists won 7-1.

Given this victory speech:

"Considering there were only two secular displays in the Capitol this time last year, the atheists have clearly figured out how to play the game this time around. Better to have their well-wishes than another Nativity scene shoved down everyone’s throat."

I am pretty sure their Happy Holidays are not meant for me.

I disagree, and to me this is the same logic that leads to "all lives matter" and "straight pride" parades.

[Steve 2.0]

I see the atheists won 7-1.

Given this victory speech:

"Considering there were only two secular displays in the Capitol this time last year, the atheists have clearly figured out how to play the game this time around. Better to have their well-wishes than another Nativity scene shoved down everyone’s throat."

I am pretty sure their Happy Holidays are not meant for me.

I'm not sure why you feel this way. I didn't mean to offend anyone when I posted this.

I do agree with B that angry atheism is not really doing anyone any good.

[Gregg]

I'm not sure why you feel this way. I didn't mean to offend anyone when I posted this.

I do agree with B that angry atheism is not really doing anyone any good.

You did not offend me at all.

I appreciate your friendship and am glad you are back.

I think B-Fly is the poster boy for non-angry atheists.

That said the author of the article is not. It is most certainly written as us vs. them and winning. This does not offend me either.

If you or B-Fly wished me a Happy Holidays I would not think you were making any point other than Happy Holidays.

If Mehta wished me a Happy Holidays it would stand for something quite different. I would hope that I would not get angry or snarky comment if I did.

Romans 12:18
If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

[TranaGreg]

I see the atheists won 7-1.

Given this victory speech:

"Considering there were only two secular displays in the Capitol this time last year, the atheists have clearly figured out how to play the game this time around. Better to have their well-wishes than another Nativity scene shoved down everyone’s throat."

I am pretty sure their Happy Holidays are not meant for me.

From the same article, this quote seem seems a bit more inclusive ...

“These displays represent a wide swath of Iowa: atheist and humanist, college-aged to the more experienced in life, queer and straight, transgender and/or nonbinary, Iowans of all backgrounds, races and socio-economic status, as well as from various parts of Iowa,” he added."

[Ken]

I disagree, and to me this is the same logic that leads to "all lives matter" and "straight pride" parades.

I didn't read Gregg's post that way at all, so I'm interested in a differing opinion. Which part are you disagreeing with and what about his post is similar to "all lives matter"?

[Steve 2.0]

You did not offend me at all.

I appreciate your friendship and am glad you are back.

I think B-Fly is the poster boy for non-angry atheists.

That said the author of the article is not. It is most certainly written as us vs. them and winning. This does not offend me either.

If you or B-Fly wished me a Happy Holidays I would not think you were making any point other than Happy Holidays.

If Mehta wished me a Happy Holidays it would stand for something quite different. I would hope that I would not get angry or snarky comment if I did.

Romans 12:18
If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

Happy Holidays!

[Gregg]

Happy Holidays!

Thank you and to you and yours as well.

[DMT]

I didn't read Gregg's post that way at all, so I'm interested in a differing opinion. Which part are you disagreeing with and what about his post is similar to "all lives matter"?

"All lives matter" was a response to "black lives matter" by people who were triggered that African Americans had the audacity to declare that it wasn't ok for police to murder them at will. The slogan in no way implied that "all lives don't matter". Not everyone who uses this slogan is even aware of how offensive it is. My younger half-sister (we never lived together and she's much younger) had an "all lives matter shirt" on and we were at a mall and I couldn't even look strangers in the eye because I was so embarrassed. I did feel compelled to address it with her and she seemed to understand.

Promoting inclusion of all people during this time of year, regardless of their religious beliefs, similarly isn't meant to imply that Christians aren't welcome but rather make it clear that everyone else is too.

The similarity is distorting a message from a marginalized group as an attack on the dominant group. I'm not saying Gregg meant it this way (and his reply certainly didn't argue that point) but the logic IMO is similar.

[B-Fly]

For what it's worth, if I'm speaking to a person whose religion and/or holiday traditions I know, I'll wish them a specific "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hanukkah", "Happy Diwali" - whatever. But if I don't know a person's religion or if I'm sending out greetings to a diverse group (as with my family's holiday card mailing or an email to all of my co-workers, for example), then I would go with the open and inclusive "Happy Holidays". I will admit that it really bothers me when folks argue that "Merry Christmas" should be said instead of "Happy Holidays" when one is communicating to a diverse group (like, for example, a retail store or restaurant's customers) or to an individual who's holiday tradition you don't know. I find it baffling that anyone would object to "Happy Holidays" in those contexts.

[DMT]

For what it's worth, if I'm speaking to a person whose religion and/or holiday traditions I know, I'll wish them a specific "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hanukkah", "Happy Diwali" - whatever. But if I don't know a person's religion or if I'm sending out greetings to a diverse group (as with my family's holiday card mailing or an email to all of my co-workers, for example), then I would go with the open and inclusive "Happy Holidays". I will admit that it really bothers me when folks argue that "Merry Christmas" should be said instead of "Happy Holidays" when one is communicating to a diverse group (like, for example, a retail store or restaurant's customers) or to an individual who's holiday tradition you don't know. I find it baffling that anyone would object to "Happy Holidays" in those contexts.

Exactly.

[In the Corn]

Not knowing all the details, but this display at the State Capital is a no-win situation for anyone affiliated with organized religion. If they get something approved, the angry atheists file a lawsuit about separation of church and state.

I don't see this as a win for atheists, as there isn't a fair playing field, if anyone is willing to play. IMO, it's atheists stealing someone's ball, and telling them to go home, as you suck at baseball.

BAH-HUMBUG!