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Thread: Atheists in Iowa

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve 2.0 View Post
    Happy Holidays!
    Thank you and to you and yours as well.

  2. #12
    All Star DMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    I didn't read Gregg's post that way at all, so I'm interested in a differing opinion. Which part are you disagreeing with and what about his post is similar to "all lives matter"?
    "All lives matter" was a response to "black lives matter" by people who were triggered that African Americans had the audacity to declare that it wasn't ok for police to murder them at will. The slogan in no way implied that "all lives don't matter". Not everyone who uses this slogan is even aware of how offensive it is. My younger half-sister (we never lived together and she's much younger) had an "all lives matter shirt" on and we were at a mall and I couldn't even look strangers in the eye because I was so embarrassed. I did feel compelled to address it with her and she seemed to understand.

    Promoting inclusion of all people during this time of year, regardless of their religious beliefs, similarly isn't meant to imply that Christians aren't welcome but rather make it clear that everyone else is too.

    The similarity is distorting a message from a marginalized group as an attack on the dominant group. I'm not saying Gregg meant it this way (and his reply certainly didn't argue that point) but the logic IMO is similar.
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  3. #13
    Hall of Famer B-Fly's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, if I'm speaking to a person whose religion and/or holiday traditions I know, I'll wish them a specific "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hanukkah", "Happy Diwali" - whatever. But if I don't know a person's religion or if I'm sending out greetings to a diverse group (as with my family's holiday card mailing or an email to all of my co-workers, for example), then I would go with the open and inclusive "Happy Holidays". I will admit that it really bothers me when folks argue that "Merry Christmas" should be said instead of "Happy Holidays" when one is communicating to a diverse group (like, for example, a retail store or restaurant's customers) or to an individual who's holiday tradition you don't know. I find it baffling that anyone would object to "Happy Holidays" in those contexts.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Fly View Post
    For what it's worth, if I'm speaking to a person whose religion and/or holiday traditions I know, I'll wish them a specific "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hanukkah", "Happy Diwali" - whatever. But if I don't know a person's religion or if I'm sending out greetings to a diverse group (as with my family's holiday card mailing or an email to all of my co-workers, for example), then I would go with the open and inclusive "Happy Holidays". I will admit that it really bothers me when folks argue that "Merry Christmas" should be said instead of "Happy Holidays" when one is communicating to a diverse group (like, for example, a retail store or restaurant's customers) or to an individual who's holiday tradition you don't know. I find it baffling that anyone would object to "Happy Holidays" in those contexts.
    Exactly.
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  5. #15
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    Not knowing all the details, but this display at the State Capital is a no-win situation for anyone affiliated with organized religion. If they get something approved, the angry atheists file a lawsuit about separation of church and state.

    I don't see this as a win for atheists, as there isn't a fair playing field, if anyone is willing to play. IMO, it's atheists stealing someone's ball, and telling them to go home, as you suck at baseball.

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  6. #16
    Journeyman Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMT View Post
    "All lives matter" was a response to "black lives matter" by people who were triggered that African Americans had the audacity to declare that it wasn't ok for police to murder them at will.
    Agreed. However in this case isn't this the atheists being triggered by seeing a Christmas tree? I'm not seeing the parallel the same way you are I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMT View Post
    Promoting inclusion of all people during this time of year, regardless of their religious beliefs, similarly isn't meant to imply that Christians aren't welcome but rather make it clear that everyone else is too.
    Right, but the quote Gregg referenced was based on an atheist saying they "won" 7-1 -- and that it's good news so the Christian's can stop shoving a Nativity scene down everyone's throat. That's very aggressive. If it was just an inclusionary idea, I'm definitely on board. If's its a "war" where the athiests can try to "win" by pushing theists to the side, and trashing their beliefs, that's an aggressive approach that serves the opposite purpose, which is what Gregg seemed to be objecting to.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Agreed. However in this case isn't this the atheists being triggered by seeing a Christmas tree? I'm not seeing the parallel the same way you are I guess.



    Right, but the quote Gregg referenced was based on an atheist saying they "won" 7-1 -- and that it's good news so the Christian's can stop shoving a Nativity scene down everyone's throat. That's very aggressive. If it was just an inclusionary idea, I'm definitely on board. If's its a "war" where the athiests can try to "win" by pushing theists to the side, and trashing their beliefs, that's an aggressive approach that serves the opposite purpose, which is what Gregg seemed to be objecting to.
    Yes.

    The article does nothing to promote peace and understanding or unity.

    Unfortunately many Christians believe that it is ok to fight against atheists for being atheists and that is not what Jesus would want us to do. The goal is not to win next year 8-7. The goal should be how do I love and serve my fellow man.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    Yes.

    The article does nothing to promote peace and understanding or unity.

    Unfortunately many Christians believe that it is ok to fight against atheists for being atheists and that is not what Jesus would want us to do. The goal is not to win next year 8-7. The goal should be how do I love and serve my fellow man.
    The world would certainly be better off if more Christians followed Jesus' path in this manner. Unfortunately, Christians are shoving their beliefs down others' throats when it comes to other issues.

    But if it seemed I was defending angry atheism, then it was unintentional on my part. One of my good buddies is an angry atheist and has accused me of being a religion apologist for challenging his arrogance.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMT View Post
    The world would certainly be better off if more Christians followed Jesus' path in this manner. Unfortunately, Christians are shoving their beliefs down others' throats when it comes to other issues.
    Which is exactly what happened with that article except it was atheists doing the shoving. Just to be clear that is not what Steve did in bringing this up. I appreciate the dialog.

    If any side can convince themselves that they are the good guys just meting out justice or revenge there is a problem. If we are the good guys the ends justify the means. Except they don't.

    One of the hardest things I have to do as a follower of Christ is to put my justifiable anger way and show kindness. I am better than I was and not as good as I am going to be.
    Last edited by Gregg; 12-03-2019 at 07:49 PM.

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