Official Week 12 Thread

[madducks]

Steelers WR JuJu Smith-Schuster is out for Week 12.

Giants TE Evan Engram is out.

[Judge Jude]

AFC
1 PATRIOTS 10-1, 5 BILLS 8-3
2 RAVENS 9-2, 6 STEELERS 6-5
3 TEXANS 7-4, Colts 6-5, Titans 6-5
4 CHIEFS 7-4, Raiders 6-5

NFC
4 COWBOYS 6-5
3 PACKERS 8-3, 6 VIKINGS 8-3
2 SAINTS 9-2
1 49ERS 10-1, 5 SEAHAWKS 9-2, Rams 6-5

...............................

FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS - a look ahead to the spring 2020 NFL Draft to be held there

tight W by WAS and L by CIN gives the Bengals the ballgame, basically

0-11 - Bengals


2-9 - Dolphins, Redskins, Giants

3-8 - Falcons, Broncos
3-7-1 - Cardinals, Lions

4-7 - Chargers, Jets, Buccaneers, Jaguars

5-6 - Browns, Eagles, Bears, Panthers

PENDING EPIC SHOWDOWNS
Dec 8 - MIA at NYJ
Dec 15 - MIA at NYG
Dec 22 - CIN at MIA, NYG at WAS

[madducks]

Steelers RB James Conner is out.

Lions QB Matthew Stafford is out.

[Judge Jude]

updating the NFL's all-time rushing leaders (oddly, Shady McCoy is around 11,000 yards but no other active RB has even 7,000 yards - or even ranks in the top 70 - aside from the other two listed below)

Rank Player Yds Years Tm
1 Emmitt Smith+ 18,355 1990-2004 2TM
2 Walter Payton+ 16,726 1975-1987 chi
3 FRANK GORE 15,289 2005-2019 4TM
4 Barry Sanders+ 15,269 1989-1998 det
5 Curtis Martin+ 14,101 1995-2005 2TM
6 ADRIAN PETERSON 13,861 2007-2019 4TM
7 LaDainian Tomlinson+ 13,684 2001-2011 2TM
8 Jerome Bettis+ 13,662 1993-2005 2TM
9 Eric Dickerson+ 13,259 1983-1993 4TM
10 Tony Dorsett+ 12,739 1977-1988 2TM
11 Jim Brown+ 12,312 1957-1965 cle
12 Marshall Faulk+ 12,279 1994-2005 2TM
3 Edgerrin James 12,246 1999-2009 3TM
14 Marcus Allen+ 12,243 1982-1997 2TM
15 Franco Harris+ 12,120 1972-1984 2TM
16 Thurman Thomas+ 12,074 1988-2000 2TM
17 Fred Taylor 11,695 1998-2010 2TM
18 Steven Jackson 11,438 2004-2015 3TM
19 John Riggins+ 11,352 1971-1985 2TM
20 Corey Dillon 11,241 1997-2006 2TM

Gore has 3,000 more yards than the top runner not in the HOF, so he may be a compiler but.....

[DMT]

Are you implying Gore isn't a HOFer?

[TS Garp]

Are you implying Gore isn't a HOFer?

I wouldn't vote for him although I'm sure he'll make it easily. He's had an incredible career and the longevity is phenomenal, to be sure. And one can argue that alone should get him in, but he really only had one elite season. Was he really considered the best RB in the league or even one of the 3-5 best for more than a couple of years? It's really hard to vote him in when Edgerrin James isn't in, for one thing. James doesn't boast the career number of Gore but there's no question who had a more impressive peak. People have different ways of evaluating these things but I think a player needs to have been in the conversation as the best at his position for some time in order to truly belong. Just my opinion.

[Judge Jude]

I was just noting that while many gut instincts want to say "no" - Gore is a whopping three 1,000-yard seasons ahead of anyone not in the HOF. and only two other active RBs have even half his career yardage, so it's not like his numbers are about to be tsunami-ed as happened to QBs and WRs.

Don Sutton got into the baseball HOF.

re QBs, check out the top 20 passing yards list for comparison (not counting Flacco or Alex Smith, Fitzmagic would be next active guy with 31K. updated with today's games)

1 DREW BREES 76,044 2001-2019 2TM
2 TOM BRADY 73,456 2000-2019 nwe
3 Peyton Manning 71,940 1998-2015 2TM
4 Brett Favre+ 71,838 1991-2010 4TM
5 Dan Marino+ 61,361 1983-1999 mia
6 PHILIP RIVERS 57,825 2004-2019 sdg
7 BEN ROETHLISBERGER 56,545 2004-2019 pit
8 ELI MANNING 56,537 2004-2019 nyg
9 John Elway+ 51,475 1983-1998 den
10 MATT RYAN 49,654 2008-2019 atl
11 Warren Moon+ 49,325 1984-2000 4TM
12 Fran Tarkenton+ 47,003 1961-1978 2TM
13 Carson Palmer 46,247 2004-2017 3TM
14 Vinny Testaverde 46,233 1987-2007 7TM
15 AARON RODGERS 45,766 2005-2019 gnb
16 Drew Bledsoe 44,611 1993-2006 3TM
17 Dan Fouts+ 43,040 1973-1987 sdg
18 MATTHEW STAFFORD 41,025 2009-2019 det
19 Kerry Collins 40,922 1995-2011 6TM
20 Joe Montana+ 40,551 1979-1994 2TM

[madducks]

updating the NFL's all-time rushing leaders (oddly, Shady McCoy is around 11,000 yards but no other active RB has even 7,000 yards - or even ranks in the top 70 - aside from the other two listed below)

Rank Player Yds Years Tm
1 Emmitt Smith+ 18,355 1990-2004 2TM
2 Walter Payton+ 16,726 1975-1987 chi
3 FRANK GORE 15,289 2005-2019 4TM
4 Barry Sanders+ 15,269 1989-1998 det
5 Curtis Martin+ 14,101 1995-2005 2TM
6 ADRIAN PETERSON 13,861 2007-2019 4TM
7 LaDainian Tomlinson+ 13,684 2001-2011 2TM
8 Jerome Bettis+ 13,662 1993-2005 2TM
9 Eric Dickerson+ 13,259 1983-1993 4TM
10 Tony Dorsett+ 12,739 1977-1988 2TM
11 Jim Brown+ 12,312 1957-1965 cle
12 Marshall Faulk+ 12,279 1994-2005 2TM
3 Edgerrin James 12,246 1999-2009 3TM
14 Marcus Allen+ 12,243 1982-1997 2TM
15 Franco Harris+ 12,120 1972-1984 2TM
16 Thurman Thomas+ 12,074 1988-2000 2TM
17 Fred Taylor 11,695 1998-2010 2TM
18 Steven Jackson 11,438 2004-2015 3TM
19 John Riggins+ 11,352 1971-1985 2TM
20 Corey Dillon 11,241 1997-2006 2TM

Gore has 3,000 more yards than the top runner not in the HOF, so he may be a compiler but.....

It just seems wrong to see Gore above Sanders on that list. But, it is what it is.

I agree that Gore shouldn't be a first ballot HOFer. But, as soon as there is a year with a low number of deserving candidates, he should get the votes.

[madducks]

I was just noting that while many gut instincts want to say "no" - Gore is a whopping three 1,000-yard seasons ahead of anyone not in the HOF. and only two other active RBs have even half his career yardage, so it's not like his numbers are about to be tsunami-ed as happened to QBs and WRs.

Don Sutton got into the baseball HOF.

re QBs, check out the top 20 passing yards list for comparison (not counting Flacco or Alex Smith, Fitzmagic would be next active guy with 31K. updated with today's games)

1 DREW BREES 76,044 2001-2019 2TM
2 TOM BRADY 73,456 2000-2019 nwe
3 Peyton Manning 71,940 1998-2015 2TM
4 Brett Favre+ 71,838 1991-2010 4TM
5 Dan Marino+ 61,361 1983-1999 mia
6 PHILIP RIVERS 57,825 2004-2019 sdg
7 BEN ROETHLISBERGER 56,545 2004-2019 pit
8 ELI MANNING 56,537 2004-2019 nyg
9 John Elway+ 51,475 1983-1998 den
10 MATT RYAN 49,654 2008-2019 atl
11 Warren Moon+ 49,325 1984-2000 4TM
12 Fran Tarkenton+ 47,003 1961-1978 2TM
13 Carson Palmer 46,247 2004-2017 3TM
14 Vinny Testaverde 46,233 1987-2007 7TM
15 AARON RODGERS 45,766 2005-2019 gnb
16 Drew Bledsoe 44,611 1993-2006 3TM
17 Dan Fouts+ 43,040 1973-1987 sdg
18 MATTHEW STAFFORD 41,025 2009-2019 det
19 Kerry Collins 40,922 1995-2011 6TM
20 Joe Montana+ 40,551 1979-1994 2TM

Wow, Drew Brees has a realistic chance to go over 80,000 yards passing in his 20th season. That would be an average of over 4,000 yards per season. Peyton Manning ended up 60 yards shy of averaging 4,000 yards per season. And Matt Ryan is averaging over 4,000 yards per season in his first 12.

[Judge Jude]

well, being old enough to have watched early 1970s NFL, the entire process of offenses has changed.

a "screen pass" - a short dump off to a receiver - was more of a novelty back then. the QB was expected to throw deep balls for long gains, and otherwise the RBs would get what yards they could.

I doubt this has occurred to anyone quite yet, but it would be interesting to capture the actual yards gained per completion over the years based on the yard line of where the ball was caught. they talk about "yards after catch" now quite a bit, but not in the right context.

it is amusing to see announcers still breathlessly comment on modern completion percentages as if they are major achievements from tossing the ball forward 3 yards - and more and more often, even on 3rd and long where the play fails but the QB and receiver get credit on yards for...... nothing.

a few here like darts, and the comparison would be moving the tosser up from the true line to the optimal position to gain points. that is current NFL.

[revo]

The Gore argument is interesting. On one hand, as a RB who's supposed to be washed up by age 30, the fact that he keeps on ticking at age 36 after 15 seasons is remarkable. And those NINE 1,000+ yard rushing seasons. On the other hand, if the argument is solely that he's 3rd all-time in rushing, he garnered 4,200 of those yards the last 5 seasons when he was very mediocre. That 4,200 yards is the difference between leapfrogging Barry Sanders for 3rd all-time or being Thomas Jones (#26 with 10,590 yards).

#17 and #18 on the list, Fred Taylor and Steven Jackson, it could be argued were far more talented and explosive than Gore. Neither stand a great chance of induction.

In addition to Edgerrin James, other RBs that should be inducted include Jamal Lewis, Eddie George & Tiki Barber. Others who didn't accumulate the yards due to shorter career but were more explosive were Shaun Alexander, Priest Holmes & Ricky Watters.

[madducks]

Over his last 6 games, Jared Goff has just 4 TDs along with 5 INTs, & 6 fumbles.

[revo]

The Gore argument is interesting. On one hand, as a RB who's supposed to be washed up by age 30, the fact that he keeps on ticking at age 36 after 15 seasons is remarkable. And those NINE 1,000+ yard rushing seasons. On the other hand, if the argument is solely that he's 3rd all-time in rushing, he garnered 4,200 of those yards the last 5 seasons when he was very mediocre. That 4,200 yards is the difference between leapfrogging Barry Sanders for 3rd all-time or being Thomas Jones (#26 with 10,590 yards).

#17 and #18 on the list, Fred Taylor and Steven Jackson, it could be argued were far more talented and explosive than Gore. Neither stand a great chance of induction.

In addition to Edgerrin James, other RBs that should be inducted include Jamal Lewis, Eddie George & Tiki Barber. Others who didn't accumulate the yards due to shorter career but were more explosive were Shaun Alexander, Priest Holmes & Ricky Watters.

And funny enough, the 20 HOF semi-finalists were announced today, and James, Fred Taylor and Ricky Watters made the cut!

[nullnor]

I'd be curious to see if Gore had any big games when his team needed it most. it just seemed like every time I needed him in fantasy he didn't produce and when I didn't he did.