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I would like your opinion on this anti-impeachment article.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
    OK so we know the problem--now what will you do about it? You specifically.


    I know what I'm doing--I'm advocating for what's right regardless of politics.


    In that I stand with Ken. (and that's saying something)
    I will speak to the issues I think are important—same as I always do.

    Comment


    • #17
      What I find hilarious is how those of us who called out Trump for being the total piece of trash he is were labeled as "deranged". Similar to those of us who were calling WMDs a hoax before we invaded Iraq were labeled as "terrorist sympathizers". Even now the so-called moderates won't give us lefties credit for being right on both accounts. They'd rather pretend they're above the fray and engage in some more whataboutism. It's pathetic.
      If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
      - Terence McKenna

      Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

      How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Ken View Post
        It's weird to me that this is right or left. The fundamental issues here should apply regardless of who is in office. (And to be clear, my view is that impeachment should have happened already - I don't understand how the right can sleep at night with all the back bending trying to justify the obvious corruption going on)
        I didn’t see your edit. I’m not there yet.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by DMT View Post
          What I find hilarious is how those of us who called out Trump for being the total piece of trash he is were labeled as "deranged". Similar to those of us who were calling WMDs a hoax before we invaded Iraq were labeled as "terrorist sympathizers". Even now the so-called moderates won't give us lefties credit for being right on both accounts. They'd rather pretend they're above the fray and engage in some more whataboutism. It's pathetic.
          I think the issue is all the examples of Trump being trash that the left throws out. A lot of it, many people don't care about, and the stuff that people should care about gets drown out by sheer volume. A lot of it people even agree with. His main work has been done in dismantling govt agencies and regulations, and while the left moans about everything as if it's the end of the world, most of the people who voted for him, voted for that reason. A lot of his supporters like that he's not polished, so when you throw out Covfefe, the left gets deranged, the right loves it because he's just like them, a normal guy, and the middle rolls their eyes at everyone.

          So when shit happens that we should actually pay attention to, lines have already been drawn and people retreat to their camps. TDS isn't slowly moving the pendulum, it's just making people more entrenched.
          I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by heyelander View Post

            So when shit happens that we should actually pay attention to, lines have already been drawn and people retreat to their camps. TDS isn't slowly moving the pendulum, it's just making people more entrenched.
            I like this post.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by heyelander View Post
              I think the issue is all the examples of Trump being trash that the left throws out. A lot of it, many people don't care about, and the stuff that people should care about gets drown out by sheer volume. A lot of it people even agree with. His main work has been done in dismantling govt agencies and regulations, and while the left moans about everything as if it's the end of the world, most of the people who voted for him, voted for that reason. A lot of his supporters like that he's not polished, so when you throw out Covfefe, the left gets deranged, the right loves it because he's just like them, a normal guy, and the middle rolls their eyes at everyone.

              So when shit happens that we should actually pay attention to, lines have already been drawn and people retreat to their camps. TDS isn't slowly moving the pendulum, it's just making people more entrenched.
              So let me get this straight.

              The left pointing out that trump is uneducated and/or classless/clueless is Moaning, Deranged or chicken littlish. Got it. And this is somehow become bad...…..

              BUT celebrating ignorance, standing your ground even though you're wrong and cutting off your nose to spite your face is good. Cuz at least you feel like you have company in your--whatever you wanna call it--

              I've NEVER understood that mindset, doing something contrary to your own best interest just because you don't like the person or the manner in which you're being spoken to.

              Sorry I'm a little bent out of shape tonight. I just had to inform most of my family that my little sister died last night--WHY am I mad about this? because she was told by her doctor to STOP smoking and drinking or she would die--but she didn't LIKE being told how to live--so she continued and died within a year of his advice. Sure it was her life, but what about the rest of the family? Her significant other? Selfish fucking people--THAT's what people who still support Trump are--They KNOW better and STILL support this guy.

              Well Fuck Them.
              If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

              Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
              Martin Luther King, Jr.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by nots View Post
                I didn’t see your edit. I’m not there yet.
                In that case I'm very interested in learning more about your viewpoint. And not to tear it down but because I don't understand it.

                I guess we should start with my assumptions.

                It seems obvious to me that Trump has been using the power of his office to dig up dirt on his potential opponents in the 2020 election. I think anyone would be extremely naive to believe that his call with Ukraine would have happened if Biden was not one of the front runners to be a candidate in the 2020 election. So I guess I'd start there. Do you believe Trump's motivation in the call was anything other than a part of his 2020 campaign? If so, what other rational explanation is there?

                If we can get to the point where we agree that the purpose of his call was for Trump's 2020 campaign, then the question is whether we can agree that it is unlawful for the president to use the powers given his office (specifically the ability to withhold funding to a foreign entity) to influence a foreign government to dig up dirt on a political opponent, thus involving a foreign government in our election process. If Obama had withheld funding that congress had allocated towards efforts in foreign countries unless those countries became involved in the 2012 election to dig up dirt on Romney would you have said that was an appropriate use of the powers of the office?

                For me, there are numerous issues with the Ukraine call - some of which are unlawful, and others are just scary if anyone thought they were acceptable. Where do you fall?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
                  Sorry I'm a little bent out of shape tonight. I just had to inform most of my family that my little sister died last night.
                  so sorry to hear about this Brian. I cannot imagine losing a sibling so young.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
                    So let me get this straight.

                    The left pointing out that trump is uneducated and/or classless/clueless is Moaning, Deranged or chicken littlish. Got it. And this is somehow become bad...…..

                    BUT celebrating ignorance, standing your ground even though you're wrong and cutting off your nose to spite your face is good. Cuz at least you feel like you have company in your--whatever you wanna call it--

                    I've NEVER understood that mindset, doing something contrary to your own best interest just because you don't like the person or the manner in which you're being spoken to.

                    Sorry I'm a little bent out of shape tonight. I just had to inform most of my family that my little sister died last night--WHY am I mad about this? because she was told by her doctor to STOP smoking and drinking or she would die--but she didn't LIKE being told how to live--so she continued and died within a year of his advice. Sure it was her life, but what about the rest of the family? Her significant other? Selfish fucking people--THAT's what people who still support Trump are--They KNOW better and STILL support this guy.

                    Well Fuck Them.
                    so sorry to hear about your sister.
                    ---------------------------------------------
                    Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                    ---------------------------------------------
                    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                    George Orwell, 1984

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post

                      Sorry I'm a little bent out of shape tonight. I just had to inform most of my family that my little sister died last night--WHY am I mad about this? because she was told by her doctor to STOP smoking and drinking or she would die--but she didn't LIKE being told how to live--so she continued and died within a year of his advice. Sure it was her life, but what about the rest of the family? Her significant other?
                      Really sorry to learn about your sister, and the way you lost her. Some people fear life--sobriety, treatment, hard work, struggle, pain--more than death. It sucks for those who wish they didn't. I'm really sorry your sister didn't do what she needed to do and you had to watch the results. Being helpless while seeing those you love do this--I certainly can relate to the anger and the incredible frustration of having family that sees the right path, but doesn't take it.

                      I'm going through that right now with my mom (who also happens to have converted from a life-long moderate Dem to a Trump supporter--her whole social life is FB, so maybe that is why). She doesn't take care of herself, and is fading fast because of it. This after a life of lying and manipulation and exaggeration about her medical problems. But it isn't crying wolf anymore, yet now, when it is all real, she is too scared to actually take care of her problems. It is incredibly frustrating to watch unfold. Meanwhile, my brother-in-law had his testicle removed and is going through aggressive chemo for stage 3 cancer even though he is scared and hates it, cuz he wants to stick around for my sister and his kids. It is quite the contrast. He fears death and not being there for his family more than treatment. My mother doesn't want to die, but fears treatment more than death. It is also perplexing to me that my mother isn't in favor of universal health care, but that is another can of worms.
                      Last edited by Sour Masher; 10-29-2019, 10:04 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Art Vandelay View Post
                        I like this post.
                        I think it's tragic because the guy is doing long time damage to the country, but it's being lost in the sheer volume of lunacy.
                        I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I am sorry to hear about your sister—condolences to your entire family

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            yeah, that's horrible Brian. Deepest condolences.
                            It certainly feels that way. But I'm distrustful of that feeling and am curious about evidence.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ken View Post
                              In that case I'm very interested in learning more about your viewpoint. And not to tear it down but because I don't understand it.

                              I guess we should start with my assumptions.

                              It seems obvious to me that Trump has been using the power of his office to dig up dirt on his potential opponents in the 2020 election. I think anyone would be extremely naive to believe that his call with Ukraine would have happened if Biden was not one of the front runners to be a candidate in the 2020 election. So I guess I'd start there. Do you believe Trump's motivation in the call was anything other than a part of his 2020 campaign? If so, what other rational explanation is there?

                              If we can get to the point where we agree that the purpose of his call was for Trump's 2020 campaign, then the question is whether we can agree that it is unlawful for the president to use the powers given his office (specifically the ability to withhold funding to a foreign entity) to influence a foreign government to dig up dirt on a political opponent, thus involving a foreign government in our election process. If Obama had withheld funding that congress had allocated towards efforts in foreign countries unless those countries became involved in the 2012 election to dig up dirt on Romney would you have said that was an appropriate use of the powers of the office?

                              For me, there are numerous issues with the Ukraine call - some of which are unlawful, and others are just scary if anyone thought they were acceptable. Where do you fall?
                              Yes, I disagree with your assertion that the call was part of Trump’s 2020 campaign. Reading the transcript, there was an introductory congratulations on the election, an obligatory shot at Merkel and then what I believe the crux of the call—Trump wanting info on Ukraine’s involvement in the 2016 election. He referenced the servers they may or may not have and referenced the failed Mueller investigation. He was looking backward, not forward. Towards the end of the call, he brought up the Biden’s for 2 sentences. Bringing up the Biden’s and seeking dirt is a bad look for him. He clearly should not be doing that however, I don’t believe that is an impeachable offense. Should other info come out then I reserve the right it change my opinion.
                              I think the entire affair should be investigated (including what exactly Biden was doing to earn his salary) in a full and transparent way. Given the way Schiff stated that he had irrefutable proof of collusion, which turned out not to be true, I think a little skepticism is called for here. If we are going to impeach a duly elected President, I am going to need more than 2 sentences at the end of the phone call and the second hand word of an anonymous whistleblower with ties to the Biden campaign. A full investigation, complete with cross examination of the witnesses would achieve that.
                              I know you disagree and that’s fine, but you asked for my thoughts and respectfully, here they are.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by nots View Post
                                Yes, I disagree with your assertion that the call was part of Trump’s 2020 campaign.
                                Originally posted by nots View Post
                                Towards the end of the call, he brought up the Biden’s for 2 sentences. Bringing up the Biden’s and seeking dirt is a bad look for him. He clearly should not be doing that
                                I'm not sure how we can reconcile these two quotes above. It seems like the second one directly contradicts the first. The only reason bringing up the Bidens is a bad look is because it's clearly campaign related.

                                Originally posted by nots View Post
                                I think the entire affair should be investigated (including what exactly Biden was doing to earn his salary) in a full and transparent way.
                                If Hunter Biden broke the law in some way then I agree. I'm not sure that's even relevant to this discussion though, the question is whether the president did. We should not conflate the two, they are separate discussions.

                                Originally posted by nots View Post
                                Given the way Schiff stated that he had irrefutable proof of collusion, which turned out not to be true, I think a little skepticism is called for here.
                                I couldn't care less about what Schiff said or didn't say honestly, my concern came after reading what the White House put out, the transcript itself is very concerning.

                                Originally posted by nots View Post
                                If we are going to impeach a duly elected President, I am going to need more than 2 sentences at the end of the phone call
                                I guess that's where we differ. I have no sentence count restrictions. For example if I'm a juror in a murder trial and the phone transcript comes back as "Please kill my husband. I'll pay you $500K when it's done.", that's more than enough for me.

                                Heck, even just one sentence from the White House's transcript is enough "The other thing, there's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great." Trump asked Ukraine to dig up dirt on Joe Biden, his potential opponent in the 2020 election. That should NEVER happen. That's an abuse of power and a request for a foreign government to involve itself in our election process.

                                Comment

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