Police Officers Are Mostly Parasites

[Sour Masher]

To echo GITH's bloodlust, I will say that if I were abused by a priest as a child, I would have collected my pound of flesh. Maybe not quite a pound. How much do severed testicles weigh?

Ok, but from the actual vile maggot that abused you, right? Or would you let him go and attack other random priests to enact a campaign of terror to get the good ones to push out the bad? It would not only be morally reprehensible, it would not be effective.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I'm gonna sidestep the tangent on our use of nuclear bombs, and focus on the false equivalency between your daughter and your brother here. You and I are on the same page on your daughter. I am all for personal accountability and if my son hit and ran, I'd want him to pay the price for it too. Because it was his action. And if a bad cop who murder an innocent and got away with it got his, I wouldn't lose any sleep over that. Because he got what was coming to him. But that is totally different from random acts of violence on people that did not do these things, but are merely part of a larger corrupt system. That is fucked up thinking, not only morally, but logically. It is also never, ever going to fix this. Your assumption that randomly shooting cops, no matter who they are or what they have or have not done will someone fix this problem is mindboggling to me. It would make it worse, and anti-cop movements would lose the moral high ground and any public support.

I would suggest you can enjoy this kind of mindset because you are not in the demographic of those being hunted. Ands yes, I see POC as a group being hunted, by Cops, by Militia and by the Fed Govt at this moment. It's a WAR to them and could soon be for the rest of us should Trump find his way back into the WH. Again, you offer your displeasure with my tactics, but offer no solutions for the problem which is understandable--You and I aren't really affected by them...yet.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Ok, but from the actual vile maggot that abused you, right? Or would you let him go and attack other random priests to enact a campaign of terror to get the good ones to push out the bad? It would not only be morally reprehensible, it would not be effective.

I w0uld love to see all religion abolished so--it's kind of lost on me that clergy should share enjoy some kind of exalted position. And yes, I believe that if you are and remain a member of a group that is complicit in such things, you should share their fate.

[Sour Masher]

I would suggest you can enjoy this kind of mindset because you are not in the demographic of those being hunted. Ands yes, I see POC as a group being hunted, by Cops, by Militia and by the Fed Govt at this moment. It's a WAR to them and could soon be for the rest of us should Trump find his way back into the WH. Again, you offer your displeasure with my tactics, but offer no solutions for the problem which is understandable--You and I aren't really affected by them...yet.

By your own admission, the war you speak of is not your own, yet. But you still advocate for war tactics. I'd say one of the major problems with our police is that they are trained to be military fighting against those they are meant to protect. The idea of escalating this conflict by engaging trained and armed to the teeth LEOs is a recipe for more tragedy and suffering for both sides, with the ultimate "winners" obvious (if not, I'll be explicit--it ain't the protestors and vigilantes fighting police violence that would win such a war, or the people they are fighting for).

Putting aside the obvious immorality of the tactics, you don't fight against a vastly superior force head on and expect to win. You cut off their supply chain, put them under siege, until they surrender and agree to terms (the terms being reform, accountability, proper vetting of new recruits, objective oversight that isn't treated with hypocritical disgust as IA is, etc). Thus, even just based strictly on effectiveness, and putting aside the obvious inhumanity of what you are proposing, TW's strategy of hitting or at least threating to hit them in the pockets has more hope of being effective. You don't fight cops with violence--that is their strength. You fight them by threatening to take away their power, their ability to be cops.

Of course, where TW and I diverge is that I see that move as a threat to get reform, not as an actual tactic to vastly reduce the LEO population, which as I have said before, is not alarmingly high given our population. In fact, surprisingly, given are ridiculous prison population, the number of LEOs in this country is not the problem, and despite our absurdly high Defense budget, the budget for local policing is not absurdly high and is not the problem. It's how we spend that money and how we force accountability that needs addressing.

[Sour Masher]

I w0uld love to see all religion abolished so--it's kind of lost on me that clergy should share enjoy some kind of exalted position. And yes, I believe that if you are and remain a member of a group that is complicit in such things, you should share their fate.

Then do you think all those that died on 9/11 deserved their fate, for the pain and suffering the government of the US has caused in the Middle East in the past? You choose to remain a citizen of a country that has committed atrocities throughout the world, so you are deserving of retaliation--is that your stance? I sure hope not, but it is the same logic you are using here.

ETA: I don't have much use for religion myself, btw. But the priest example wasn't about putting them in a special, revered place, any more than I put LEO's in the place (as TW said, this escalated environment aside, and certain high risk areas aside, most LEO's have a safer career than he does). But I think any person in any profession deserves to be judged by his or her own actions, and afforded the respect they give others.

[Gregg]

I w0uld love to see all religion abolished And yes, I believe that if you are and remain a member of a group that is complicit in such things, you should share their fate.

This is a very dangerous position to take.

[Sour Masher]

This is a very dangerous position to take.

Yeah, if taken at face, believing that all members of a group that collectively does wrong all deserve the same fate is akin to saying we are all sinners deserving of damnation, being human as we all are, even if an individual human's only sin is being born as a human. But at least religion gives a path out of that fate (even if that path is worship of God rather than good deeds, which would make more sense morally).

Holding to the idea that the path out of damnation is violence is morally wrong. But then again, religious institutions have done just that many times, despite what the good books say to the contrary on the subject, sadly. And that brings us back to 9/11. And the Inquisition. And the Crusades. And the persecution of Christians before the Edict of Milan, and on it goes--the circle of sin our species engages in. I continue to be amazed at how we have lasted so long and accomplished so much good, despite all the bad in us.

[GwynnInTheHall]

You are correct that it doesn't personally affect me as in--I am not in danger of being killed by LE on a random stop as POC are, but it definitely MY war--It's all of ours. We've seen there use of force start to migrate from one group to all groups who oppose the Authority that LE wants to wield unabashedly. I advocate for the overall wellbeing and edification of society as a while so if ONE segment is being oppressed, IMO, it's EVERYONE'S duty to correct that transgression. In this case--it's ALL OUR duty to STOP the inequity that is Law Enforcement today.

I do not see the use of deadly force as deplorable or immoral, but as necessary at times to effect real change--Not ONE social change has been made without some violence and/or loss of life--It's just a fact that some will never change unless the consequence is dire. That is what we face today with LW--they feel invincible and they pretty much are--the do as the wish and dare you to stop them. You are correct again in that they are trained to Kill us and will in no uncertain terms do so if we give them a chance/reason. They might do it just because. And yes It would end up with loss on both sides which would be tragic, but you seem to think I'm saying we should start the war--I'm not--I'm saying fight back in your manner and that if those who feel aggrieved kill a cop, I'm not going to admonish them for doing so--Thus my statement--I won't shed a tear.

I absolutely believe Law Enforcement will not change until they are forced to do so and even then will fight it all the way, I do not believe they are here to protect and serve anymore--maybe some, but those voices are drowned out by the majority who would like to get rid of {in any manner including kill them} those they dislike. I believe as you put it, they have a bloodlust {which I do not--I do not SEEK blood} and are drunk with power. They are aggressive and vindictive to anyone who dares question their authority to do what they wan, whenever they want. ALL of them? NO, but enough that something must be done--Again--what is YOUR solution? Wait it out? Vote and hope? How many die while that happens {or doesn't or almost does} So fight them on ALL fronts--As TW has proposed and as we're seeing in the streets.

As to your 9/11 comment--anyone who is an American should be prepared to pay the p[rice of this countries interference in international affairs. Did they "deserve "it"? I don't know--did they advocate for the US to act humanely towards other countries or were they OK with how we've bullied the world for decades? Did they strive for reform in Foreign affairs towards a more peaceful society or are they Nationalists who say America First and fuck the rest? Some may have indeed reaped what they have sown and the others, well in war innocent people die and though I don't absolve the terrorists for what they did, I certainly can understand why they thought they were justified to do so.

As an American citizen, I am absolutely deserving of any retributive action taken against this country even though I have advocated for that which so many opposing ideologies seek to harm us over. It sucks to say--I'm sure we all deserve to get ours in one way or another--maybe not, maybe it's just me that does.

Finally, I agree that each individual should be judged on their own accord, but I can also absolutely understand why being collateral damage is ok if a group you're a part of is deserving of that attack. I wish we were a part of a more enlightened society where your path to change was the only rational/reasonable choice, but we're not.

Until It Has Changed I will not condemn the retributive acts of violence, if that makes me a lesser person in people's eyes so be it. I own who i am and my opinions regardless of how off-putting they might be.

Again, I hope your ideals come to pass--right now--they just seem extremely remote.

[GwynnInTheHall]

This is a very dangerous position to take.

Not really, for every good thing a religion has accomplished, it's handed us a tragedy/atrocity to go with it.

BTW I see Faith and religion as two separate things--

[Gregg]

You are correct that it doesn't personally affect me as in--I am not in danger of being killed by LE on a random stop as POC are, but it definitely MY war--It's all of ours. We've seen there use of force start to migrate from one group to all groups who oppose the Authority that LE wants to wield unabashedly. I advocate for the overall wellbeing and edification of society as a while so if ONE segment is being oppressed, IMO, it's EVERYONE'S duty to correct that transgression. In this case--it's ALL OUR duty to STOP the inequity that is Law Enforcement today.

I do not see the use of deadly force as deplorable or immoral, but as necessary at times to effect real change--Not ONE social change has been made without some violence and/or loss of life--It's just a fact that some will never change unless the consequence is dire. That is what we face today with LW--they feel invincible and they pretty much are--the do as the wish and dare you to stop them. You are correct again in that they are trained to Kill us and will in no uncertain terms do so if we give them a chance/reason. They might do it just because. And yes It would end up with loss on both sides which would be tragic, but you seem to think I'm saying we should start the war--I'm not--I'm saying fight back in your manner and that if those who feel aggrieved kill a cop, I'm not going to admonish them for doing so--Thus my statement--I won't shed a tear.

I absolutely believe Law Enforcement will not change until they are forced to do so and even then will fight it all the way, I do not believe they are here to protect and serve anymore--maybe some, but those voices are drowned out by the majority who would like to get rid of {in any manner including kill them} those they dislike. I believe as you put it, they have a bloodlust {which I do not--I do not SEEK blood} and are drunk with power. They are aggressive and vindictive to anyone who dares question their authority to do what they wan, whenever they want. ALL of them? NO, but enough that something must be done--Again--what is YOUR solution? Wait it out? Vote and hope? How many die while that happens {or doesn't or almost does} So fight them on ALL fronts--As TW has proposed and as we're seeing in the streets.

As to your 9/11 comment--anyone who is an American should be prepared to pay the p[rice of this countries interference in international affairs. Did they "deserve "it"? I don't know--did they advocate for the US to act humanely towards other countries or were they OK with how we've bullied the world for decades? Did they strive for reform in Foreign affairs towards a more peaceful society or are they Nationalists who say America First and fuck the rest? Some may have indeed reaped what they have sown and the others, well in war innocent people die and though I don't absolve the terrorists for what they did, I certainly can understand why they thought they were justified to do so.

As an American citizen, I am absolutely deserving of any retributive action taken against this country even though I have advocated for that which so many opposing ideologies seek to harm us over. It sucks to say--I'm sure we all deserve to get ours in one way or another--maybe not, maybe it's just me that does.

Finally, I agree that each individual should be judged on their own accord, but I can also absolutely understand why being collateral damage is ok if a group you're a part of is deserving of that attack. I wish we were a part of a more enlightened society where your path to change was the only rational/reasonable choice, but we're not.

Until It Has Changed I will not condemn the retributive acts of violence, if that makes me a lesser person in people's eyes so be it. I own who i am and my opinions regardless of how off-putting they might be.

Again, I hope your ideals come to pass--right now--they just seem extremely remote.

What gives you the authority to make these judgements for the people? You sound like the very people you despise. At the end shoot, eliminate those who do not agree with you. And damn the innocents.

[GwynnInTheHall]

What gives you the authority to make these judgements for the people? You sound like the very people you despise. At the end shoot, eliminate those who do not agree with you. And damn the innocents.

Who am I judging? Who do I despise? When did I advocate shooting people simply because I disagree with them? When did I say damn the innocent?

[Ken]

Who am I judging? Who do I despise? When did I advocate shooting people simply because I disagree with them? When did I say damn the innocent?

He is pretty clearly referring to this:
"I shed NO tears when I hear about cops getting ambushed or shot. Until they stop acting like the run the fucking world, I say open season on em and the maybe that will inspire the good ones to stand up for what is right."

Not to put words in Gregg's mouth, but I agree with his general sentiment. It's not productive to say "open season" on police getting ambushed simply for being police. In fact it is very counter productive.

While I agree with you that there are significant, fundamental problems with the police at every level that MUST be changed and have to be fixed immediately, executing random police officers doesn't solve that, and it definitely makes it much worse.

While your cause is certainly valid, the actions you are supporting and recommending are not appropriate IMO.

[GwynnInTheHall]

He is pretty clearly referring to this:
"I shed NO tears when I hear about cops getting ambushed or shot. Until they stop acting like the run the fucking world, I say open season on em and the maybe that will inspire the good ones to stand up for what is right."

Not to put words in Gregg's mouth, but I agree with his general sentiment. It's not productive to say "open season" on police getting ambushed simply for being police. In fact it is very counter productive.

While I agree with you that there are significant, fundamental problems with the police at every level that MUST be changed and have to be fixed immediately, executing random police officers doesn't solve that, and it definitely makes it much worse.

While your cause is certainly valid, the actions you are supporting and recommending are not appropriate IMO.

I still don't see how that is judging despising shooting because I disagree or damning the innocent.

I understand not everyone is going to agree with my take. I don't expect them to.

I don't think most of you truly understand what is happening right now. I may be wrong but the state of law enforcement and why it is what it is seems lost on some of you.

[Ken]

I still don't see how that is judging despising shooting because I disagree or damning the innocent.

Not 100% following what you mean with this sentence - might be helpful if you rewrote it in a different way.

The "innocent" concept is that the cops being ambushed, as you put it, and that individual cop may not have done anything wrong. Unless you are suggesting that every cop is bad, which I don't think you are.

I understand not everyone is going to agree with my take. I don't expect them to.

I don't think most of you truly understand what is happening right now. I may be wrong but the state of law enforcement and why it is what it is seems lost on some of you.

Nah, that's not it at all. As I said above, I agree with your cause, but the reaction is inappropriate. Ambushing police is not going to solve this. Violence isn't the answer here, it just escalates it and makes it worse.

[Teenwolf]

What gives you the authority to make these judgements for the people? You sound like the very people you despise. At the end shoot, eliminate those who do not agree with you. And damn the innocents.

If the point of disagreement is whether or not peaceful protest should be allowed, or if the point of disagreement is whether protestors should have their heads run over on bikes like in Seattle, or whether police should be allowed to run over crowds of protestors in squad cars like in NY, or whether they should run over and beat cyclists for not wearing a helmet, like in Vancouver....

Yeah, all of those motherfuckers deserve to suffer pain and injury, since we know they are immune from career repercussions. If they die, thats a consequence of their choice to work for a corrupt organization. All cops are culpable, though not solely responsible for the injustices they perpetrate organizationally. If they get caught in the crossfire unjustly, that's unfortunate, but its a consequence of police resorting to violence as a means for control rather than surrendering themselves in service to their communities.