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  • #31
    Originally posted by Gregg View Post
    I had the same experience. One of the reasons I wanted to bring it up here.

    I have to say I think if the numbers were reversed we would be reading how it is the Repub's fault rather than because they are big.

    I kind of think if the cause is big the answer for people would be to get out.
    Yes, big cities accumulate problems at a larger scale, but big cities also have a lot of benefits. That's why people keep moving there. It's not because they are stupid. That's not just an American phenomenon, it goes back to the birth of civilization.

    I'm a country boy at heart, and I don't think you'll ever take that out of me, but I've lived in big cities for 30 years now. I miss the open space and peaceful pace of the country, but I enjoy the intellectual stimulation of the city and the access to activities and services.
    "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

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    • #32
      I think the reality is there is also a much higher level of liberals who live in the city, hence the Democrat-led city government. I don't think we can find a correlation.
      "Looks like I picked a bad day to give up sniffing glue.
      - Steven McCrosky (Lloyd Bridges) in Airplane

      i have epiphanies like that all the time. for example i was watching a basketball game today and realized pom poms are like a pair of tits. there's 2 of them. they're round. they shake. women play with them. thus instead of having two, cheerleaders have four boobs.
      - nullnor, speaking on immigration law in AZ.

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      • #33
        Jobs, jobs, jobs. That's why cities are what they are, and why people migrate to them. But I certainly recognize that big cities do indeed come with very big and difficult problems.
        It certainly feels that way. But I'm distrustful of that feeling and am curious about evidence.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by In the Corn View Post
          I think the reality is there is also a much higher level of liberals who live in the city, hence the Democrat-led city government. I don't think we can find a correlation.
          I don't think that's an accident. People living in big cities recognize that there are problems that require the cooperation of society to tackle, whereas in rural areas, people tend more toward wanting to be left alone and perceiving government as interfering rather than helping.
          "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

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          • #35
            Originally posted by TranaGreg View Post
            Jobs, jobs, jobs. That's why cities are what they are, and why people migrate to them. But I certainly recognize that big cities do indeed come with very big and difficult problems.
            And to continue on a tangent, this is something I have thought about. Why are there more jobs in cities? It's because that's where the people are, right? Buy that's sort of a tautology. The jobs are there because people moved there because...?

            Living in a city allows for and encourages specialization. You can depend on someone else to produce your food and build your house and do your plumbing, and you can do whatever it is that you're good at, and in a big enough city you can find a market for it. So that's definitely part of it. Similar to that, as agriculture becomes more efficient, a farmer can't competitively make a living on a small plot of land, so he sells out to the bigger landowner and moves to the city to find a job.

            And then as a consequence, as cities reach a critical mass, the economy moves more toward services and knowledge work. For services, you tend to want to be where the most people are, so that continues the urbanization. For knowledge work, you want to be where the other skilled people in your discipline or related disciplines are. So originally that tended to cluster around universities. Now with the Internet, in theory you could live anywhere as a knowledge worker, but there is still the tendency to want to be around like-minded people and to have a critical mass of people and creative ideas in one geographic place.
            "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer View Post
              I don't think that's an accident. People living in big cities recognize that there are problems that require the cooperation of society to tackle, whereas in rural areas, people tend more toward wanting to be left alone and perceiving government as interfering rather than helping.
              Of course the $28B corporate-socialist Farm Bailout is an exception.
              If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
              - Terence McKenna

              Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

              How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer View Post
                And to continue on a tangent, this is something I have thought about. Why are there more jobs in cities? It's because that's where the people are, right? Buy that's sort of a tautology. The jobs are there because people moved there because...?

                Living in a city allows for and encourages specialization. You can depend on someone else to produce your food and build your house and do your plumbing, and you can do whatever it is that you're good at, and in a big enough city you can find a market for it. So that's definitely part of it. Similar to that, as agriculture becomes more efficient, a farmer can't competitively make a living on a small plot of land, so he sells out to the bigger landowner and moves to the city to find a job.

                And then as a consequence, as cities reach a critical mass, the economy moves more toward services and knowledge work. For services, you tend to want to be where the most people are, so that continues the urbanization. For knowledge work, you want to be where the other skilled people in your discipline or related disciplines are. So originally that tended to cluster around universities. Now with the Internet, in theory you could live anywhere as a knowledge worker, but there is still the tendency to want to be around like-minded people and to have a critical mass of people and creative ideas in one geographic place.
                yep, everything you've said is on the mark. I was born in a city because my father being the 8th of 11 kids born on a farm had little chance of making it on his own out there so he came for work. It's a common story.

                And re: service / knowledge work there is a difference. Service work - for sure, the vast majority of people working in the service industry need to be near their clients. Knowledge workers are a bit different - you're right, there's a desire to be in the presence of like-minded people, but I do see an opportunity for that to spread out somewhat. We actually are considering a move well outside of the city to a relatively small town up here ... it probably will require me to travel to the city a few times a month but there's less of a need to be here permanently. But that's the exception ... for most, you're right, you want your teams to be centralized, at least part-time (for me a nice balance would be in the office 2 days a week with the rest of my team(s), and work remotely 3 days ... but in a big organization that's tough to manage).
                It certainly feels that way. But I'm distrustful of that feeling and am curious about evidence.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by DMT View Post
                  Of course the $28B corporate-socialist Farm Bailout is an exception.
                  The hypocrisy of that is a fair point, but it is also worth pointing out that some of the struggles farmers face are because of government-level decisions, like this trade war, so it is only fair to make up for that, especially given how vital their role is in society. Also, farming is a tough and hard way to make a living, so I doubt any farmer thinks he is getting a handout with a bailout. That is especially the case for smaller farms that keep getting beat up by economies of scale and rules that make it hard for them to compete with the big factory farmers. I'm all for supporting local and small farms. It is vital work and we should encourage those willing and eager to do it.

                  In short, I am not mad at farming bailouts, but do acknowledge the irony that many of them seem to get mad when other groups get government help.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TranaGreg View Post
                    Jobs, jobs, jobs. That's why cities are what they are, and why people migrate to them. But I certainly recognize that big cities do indeed come with very big and difficult problems.
                    I think the bigger problem is that big manufactures got the people to move to the city and eventually closed down or moved due to cost. Detroit, Milwaukee, Chicago, St. Louis, etc. have lost that manufacturing base. From beer to automobiles, steel to drywall. What happens then?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Gregg View Post
                      I think the bigger problem is that big manufactures got the people to move to the city and eventually closed down or moved due to cost. Detroit, Milwaukee, Chicago, St. Louis, etc. have lost that manufacturing base. From beer to automobiles, steel to drywall. What happens then?
                      The new emerging working class in big cities is the servant class. The fastest growing jobs are nail salons, personal trainers, dog walkers, uber drivers, food service, coffee shops, etc. Even my job as a landscaper caters strictly to the wealthy. The rat race of living in a big city with no financial ability to ever get ahead is a brutal experience, and every day the rich fuckers shove it in your face, cutting you off in traffic, these wrinkled man-baby assholes in lamborghinis and porsches with blue tooth headsets in their ear, directing their minions on how to build an empire... I got pretty sick of that aspect. The servant class are quite transient, usually abandoning the big city after being forced out of affordable housing for renovictions. The big cities are a nightmare for working class people, it just takes 10 years for these folks to figure out that they'll never get ahead, so new recent graduates move in to take over the burden.

                      I see why they're drawn to the big city, but it usually spits them back out.
                      Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

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                      • #41
                        California is the Biggest Liberal Bastion in the US--we seem to be doing just fine.
                        If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                        Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                        Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
                          California is the Biggest Liberal Bastion in the US--we seem to be doing just fine.

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                          • #43
                            You forgot a few:

                            https://www.https://californiahealth...s-proliferate/




                            With the end of many pandemic relief programs, poverty rates—especially for children—have gone up in the last two years.


                            I guess it all depends on your definition of ‘just fine’, but it doesn’t sound all that great to me.

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                            • #45
                              Weird how this thread has turned into "is California thriving or dying?".
                              It certainly feels that way. But I'm distrustful of that feeling and am curious about evidence.

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