Trade Blockbuster...

[Hornsby]

18 team mixed league, 5x5 OBP setup...made up mostly of RJ guys. We had a big trade yesterday where the 1st place team made a deal to try to seal his win...my question is, did he give too much? 1st place team is Abe Froman...

Putsy Caballeros acquired Vladimir Guerrero, Eduardo Nunez and Victor Robles from Abe Froman

Abe Froman acquired Zack Greinke, Shane Bieber and Mike Trout from Putsy Caballeros

Trout is expiring, as is Greinke...Beiber is keepable at 8.

Vladdy and Robles are 0 year guys, who can be kept for 3 years before n extension is needed. Vladdy is 4, and Robles is 6...

What sayeth the 'pen?

[revo]

I like it. Froman made a very aggressive move and paid a steep price (he did also acquire 2 rookie picks). Putsy had the capital with his guys and landed the proverbial pot of gold. As a contender/pretender, I didn't like to see a deal like this which now makes my team look like a bunch of little leaguers, but he paid the price. Good for him.

[Teenwolf]

It's my 1st year in the league. That trade made me feel like I'll never be gutsy enough to win this league. I currently have W. Franco and J. Adell, similar package to Vlad + Robles. I can't see myself ever dealing those 2 in a package, especially in their zero year. Not even for 3 studs. Would need some extreme circumstances to get me to pull the trigger... I guess if you're a huge fan of Bieber, it hurts a bit less.

[gcstomp]

what a move! vlad + robles is worth way more than your 2 untouchables, teen, imo.

i couldnt move that pair, zero year keepers as in new owner will have them until miami is claimed by the ocean, in this 1 trade. early this year in my 12 tm nl i gave a haul for a deal, giving up cheap keepable w buehler, d swanson, and t trammell in a deal where i got really 5 useful parts centered around yelich. i have been mildly sick ever since but it was a deal where there there were keepable parts going both ways. here, this just looks to be not enough for me personally to lose vlad and robles. i would have needed another 2 useful win now lineup upgrades but that is a blockbuster.

[gcstomp]

what are standing btw. right at start of season there was a thread where it was stated acunamatata was head and shoulders best team, everyone go home. clearly that was premature, a different team is in lead, but how has this shaped up in standings?

[Gregg]

That sure is a blockbuster!

I like it for both teams. If Flags Fly Forever is important to the way you play, this could be the poster boy trade for that.

If trading rebuilding and trying to create a dynasty is how you roll than what a great trade to get Vlad and Robles. If I am the cheap Vlad and Robles owner I would be already forming a budget to add Trout next year.

Great trade for both sides.

[DMT]

To answer Hornsby's question, it's only too much if he doesn't win.

[Sour Masher]

Too much imo, but probably not something he regrets if he wins. If he doesn't, this deal will haunt him for sure.

[Judge Jude]

Flags Fly Forever.

AND Vlad mid-2019 is less established than a 20-year-old who in 2011 put up a .277-18-72-83-11 line as a rookie.

that also heavily hyped future Hall of Famer/superhero now goes by his civilian name of .. Jason Heyward.

I lost a pennant because the Heyward owner had the stones to deal him midseason - again, after he had accomplished more than Vlad has so far.

[TranaGreg]

Yeah, nice deal guys, I was out when I read this trade & almost dropped my phone.

To get Trout & Greinke (Bieber's a nice-to-get) - yeah, I can see why these guys were the price. Would I have done it if I were in the same place? I'd like to think so ... but I'm not sure ...

[Gregg]

Yeah, nice deal guys, I was out when I read this trade & almost dropped my phone.

To get Trout & Greinke (Bieber's a nice-to-get) - yeah, I can see why these guys were the price. Would I have done it if I were in the same place? I'd like to think so ... but I'm not sure ...

I went all in last year in my AL only only to fall 1 hr short or two extra hits. Landed in second place. Pretty much out of it and rebuilding this year. Was it worth it...not sure. Would I do it again...probably.

[Ken]

Keeper league goals:

1) Win this year with a core set of players who are keepable - build a dynasty
2) If (1) is impossible, win this year by still maintaining a decent keeper list that I can build on with next year's draft. Give up some keepers, but keep a couple of your key players for the future if possible.
3) If (1) and (2) are impossible, win this year at all costs, push all in.
4) If I can't win, even by pushing all in, then build a great keeper list for next year so hopefully I can start back at (1) next year

I tend to move through these sequentially and I've been stuck on (4) at times, although most of the time it only last a couple years.

The most important part is evaluating where you are on the curve and applying the appropriate strategy. If you evaluate it wrong, it will cost you.

(1) is very rare, and (2) can be dangerous. This thread looks like it is based on step (3), and once you've started down that path, it's a grind to make sure you push all the way and get that win since you are going to be at step (4) next year and possibly longer.

And there are teams in every league I'm in that are perpetually stuck on (4) because they aren't able to look forward and evaluate what is truly valuable next year.

Obviously a lot of this is league dependent, the longer the contract terms and the higher the inflation, the harder it is to recover.

[mjl]

as far as a core set, note that he still has Bregman $16/2021, Lindor $16/2020, GTorres $5A, Muncy $9B, Mancini $8A, Yelich $45B (I guess that's a good deal now), Yates $1B. No minor leaguers of note.

I think he's definitely in 1 or 2.

Another note on the value is that both Trout and Greinke are much lower salary than you'd expect - Trout $25, Greinke $24 - and the league has a pretty tight salary cap. The team that got them is now exactly at the $360 cap. So they were worth significantly more than trading for, say, a $45 Yelich and $46 Verlander.

(for what it's worth I could have had Pete Alonso $3/zero and Giolito $2A if I had been willing to pull the trigger a while earlier, before Giolito went on this absurd hot streak, but I would have had to give up Morton $7/2020 instead of Bieber.)

I also value draft picks lower than most people, or at least draft picks outside round 1.

[mjl]

what are standing btw. right at start of season there was a thread where it was stated acunamatata was head and shoulders best team, everyone go home. clearly that was premature, a different team is in lead, but how has this shaped up in standings?

Abe Froman is at 155, Big Tymers is at 145. To be honest I still don't know how Abe is at 72 points in pitching with his super cheap staff, but he had $1/expiring Luis Castillo, Cole, $1B Yates, and then a bunch of guys who have been solid so far but might not stick (Teheran, Strop, Blake Parker, Gant, Miley). Big Tymers have been dealing with underperforming pitchers (Carrasco, Thor, Arrieta) but Scherzer and Chirinos have been great and his hitting has mostly been as advertised, though Jose Ramirez and Benintendi aren't quite where he would have liked.

My overall assessment is that, at least at this point of the season, it's hard to point to any money Abe Froman spent that hasn't been worth it, and so along with the underpriced guys he already had and the guys he got lucky on, he's in real good shape. Contrast for example the pitiful Putsy Caballeros, who were picked to do well this season on the basis of a very solid keeper list and Tatis Jr ready to go, and now the keeper list with guys like Yonder Alonso and Stephen Piscotty along with $54 of exploded players (Jake Lamb, McCutchen, Vizcaino) and spending $49 on Travis Shaw and Jackie Bradley Jr has been not so great.

(preliminary keeper list for next year: Mondesi $1/option, Vlad $4A, Pham $15/2021, Robles $6A, Tatis $3A, Flaherty $1B, Morton $7X, Manaea $1B... Renato Nunez $5, JaCoby Jones $5? I dunno if this is better than having Jose Ramirez and Acuna and Betts, but at least it's cheaper)

[Hornsby]

as far as a core set, note that he still has Bregman $16/2021, Lindor $16/2020, GTorres $5A, Muncy $9B, Mancini $8A, Yelich $45B (I guess that's a good deal now), Yates $1B. No minor leaguers of note.

I think he's definitely in 1 or 2.

Another note on the value is that both Trout and Greinke are much lower salary than you'd expect - Trout $25, Greinke $24 - and the league has a pretty tight salary cap. The team that got them is now exactly at the $360 cap. So they were worth significantly more than trading for, say, a $45 Yelich and $46 Verlander.

(for what it's worth I could have had Pete Alonso $3/zero and Giolito $2A if I had been willing to pull the trigger a while earlier, before Giolito went on this absurd hot streak, but I would have had to give up Morton $7/2020 instead of Bieber.)

I also value draft picks lower than most people, or at least draft picks outside round 1.

I don't think that there's any need to defend Nate, he's in 1st by 10 points last I looked. He made a deal that he obviously thinks can win him the league, and I applaud going all in for it. It's a tough league to win, you've done it, but it generally requires a team that's peaking all year long, and some really good luck health wise. Ken's synopsis is pretty well spot on IMO...there are consistently good teams, consistent re builders, and consistent 1st division teams. But to win for a year or two, I think that you need great luck, and great health, and that observation isn't breaking new ground.

You made a GREAT deal, no ifs, ands, or buts. You've got two core keepers for years to come, I dare say two top 15 players for years to come, and you didn't have to overpay to do it. I do believe that Nate overpaid to get Trout and Greinke, but I understand why he did so, and maybe if I was in his position, I'd do the same...but I don't think that I'd have the cojones to do both studs.

I still think that Rick and Andy are in it...Rick need to get healthy, and Andy just need some time. I think that it'll be a really good race until the end, mainly because all three teams are constantly grinding. No one ever gives up...

All in all, a fun deal for the league, and it sets you up for 2 seasons for now.

Also, NOW I might think about dealing Trea Turner for...say Vladdy and Robles? Could it be?