The Great Moderate political thread

[TranaGreg]

my only comment is that your positioning of the Very Progressive Response is unnecessarily singular in focus - a decision can be made to implement strict quotas thru regulations while also working to compensate those who livelihoods depend on it (or provide economic stimulus to those communities). I don't equate this with the Moderate Progress Response as the outcome on fish stocks would be the same in either scenario.

BTW, interesting case study to use. We had this specific scenario with cod fishing off the coast of Newfoundland about 30 years ago. After much debate, it was decided to completely shut down the industry. Yes, there was lots of economic damage done but most agree that there were simply no other options available.

[Sour Masher]

my only comment is that your positioning of the Very Progressive Response is unnecessarily singular in focus - a decision can be made to implement strict quotas thru regulations while also working to compensate those who livelihoods depend on it (or provide economic stimulus to those communities). I don't equate this with the Moderate Progress Response as the outcome on fish stocks would be the same in either scenario.

BTW, interesting case study to use. We had this specific scenario with cod fishing off the coast of Newfoundland about 30 years ago. After much debate, it was decided to completely shut down the industry. Yes, there was lots of economic damage done but most agree that there were simply no other options available.

That is a good point, but does highlight that a very progressive solution would focus on compensating those displaced by new regulations, which brings in the issue of taxation. So, you are right that many very progressive people would be sympathetic to displaced workers, but their solution to that issue would be the larger society sharing that financial burden, which isn't something conservatives would agree with as a solution.

[TranaGreg]

That is a good point, but does highlight that a very progressive solution would focus on compensating those displaced by new regulations, which brings in the issue of taxation. So, you are right that many very progressive people would be sympathetic to displaced workers, but their solution to that issue would be the larger society sharing that financial burden, which isn't something conservatives would agree with as a solution.

except for the conservatives working in the fishing industry, of course

[The Feral Slasher]

No moderates showed up yet. Moderators, please change the title to "The Moderately Poor Moderate political thread"

[Sour Masher]

except for the conservatives working in the fishing industry, of course

Ha, good point. Folks tend to be more progressive about solutions to problems that directly affect them.

[B-Fly]

No moderates showed up yet. Moderators, please change the title to "The Moderately Poor Moderate political thread"

LOL. Trying to figure out what the goal was here. Are you looking for the folks who are open to voting for either Republican or Democratic candidates and wish that there was someone who could just split the difference between the two party platforms?

[The Feral Slasher]

LOL. Trying to figure out what the goal was here. Are you looking for the folks who are open to voting for either Republican or Democratic candidates and wish that there was someone who could just split the difference between the two party platforms?

I was just more or less responding to In the Corn's comments about moderates related to polling of Biden in the other thread (election thread ?). So I thought it might be interesting to discuss what a "moderate" is, what policies they support, etc. I suspect it may be more to do with what policies they don't support. It's probably easier to pick those out. Anyway, fun to read people's thoughts

[Sour Masher]

I was just more or less responding to In the Corn's comments about moderates related to polling of Biden in the other thread (election thread ?). So I thought it might be interesting to discuss what a "moderate" is, what policies they support, etc. I suspect it may be more to do with what policies they don't support. It's probably easier to pick those out. Anyway, fun to read people's thoughts

I think, as my example tried to show, it isn't always what people do or don't support. Certainly, there are platform differences in play, which seems to be your focus. But lots of times it is about differences of priorities and how we should pursue solutions. I think most very progressive and moderately progressive voters share a lot of the same values and see lots of the same problems that they want solutions to. There are, however, differences in play about how it is best to solve those problems and how pressing they are in relation to other mitigating factors. I think the same this is probably true on the conservative side. So, I think I probably share the same sense of the problems we face with you on 95% of all issues, and most of our disagreement is probably in how best to deal with those problems.

That said, there certainly are issues that I think reveal fundamental differences of approach on. One that comes to mind is a well-worn argument here--American interventionism. Those on the very progressive side of things like you and DMT and Sanders and I think TW want the US out of the business of mucking about in wars and conflicts that don't directly concern us. On that issue, there is agreement with the opposite end of the spectrum--libertarians. And then there are those in the middle, both progressive and conservative, for different reasons, who find justifications for some interventions. On the left, those justifications tend to be about moral responsibility to others, and on the right toward protecting and expanding American interests. As DMT and you have has said, both motivations amount to the same bad outcomes, and, again, that is a position that interestingly aligns very progressive folks with libertarian folks. There are other issues that likewise don't cut neatly along a progressive/conservative spectrum, which just shows the limitations of such taxonomies and labels.

But again, your initial post seems to be looking for a totally different platform separating very progressive voters from moderate progressives, or very conservative voters from moderate conservatives, and I think they share a good bit of the same platforms, but disagree on degree.

[The Feral Slasher]

I was just more or less responding to In the Corn's comments about moderates related to polling of Biden in the other thread (election thread ?). So I thought it might be interesting to discuss what a "moderate" is, what policies they support, etc. I suspect it may be more to do with what policies they don't support. It's probably easier to pick those out. Anyway, fun to read people's thoughts

I suppose another approach would be to put candidates into buckets based on their policies, sort of like the post linking to 538. Not many Republican candidates to put in buckets at this point. I think maybe 2 ?

[Sour Masher]

I suppose another approach would be to put candidates into buckets based on their policies, sort of like the post linking to 538. Not many Republican candidates to put in buckets at this point. I think maybe 2 ?

Be careful about a term like bucket. The term basket got HRC in a LOT of trouble. Some point to it as the reason she lost the election.

[The Feral Slasher]

Be careful about a term like bucket. The term basket got HRC in a LOT of trouble. Some point to it as the reason she lost the election.

Maybe if she said bucket of deplorables it would have been ok. Words matter

[Sour Masher]

Maybe if she said bucket of deplorables it would have been ok. Words matter

Lol, yes the do. I'm hoping the Dem candidates this year are careful about what receptacles they put voters in.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Lol, yes the do. I'm hoping the Dem candidates this year are careful about what receptacles they put voters in.

[The Feral Slasher]

Do moderate buckets leak over into dems and republicans ? Are they effective receptacles ?

[In the Corn]

I think it's going to be difficult to put all moderates into the same bucket/category. As for where I'm at. I have no issue voting for a Republican or Democrat, if they hold positions that I agree with.

To put a broad umbrella around my thoughts: I tend to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal. While those don't alway jive, as you need to have $$$ for the society needs that rest in the socially liberal side. I'm not against paying taxes, but I would like to see them be used in better ways and taxation being fair.

One of my biggest tax pet peeves is the gas tax. Democrats like to hike the gas tax, and we need to have money for infrastructure, but the gas tax is horribly regressive and punishes low income drivers. I'd much rather see a mileage tax mixed in with a weight tax.

On some of the other bigger issues:

Abortion-I'm pro-life but understand that the genie is out of the bottle and woman will get abortions. I want them to have access to safe, clean environments for the abortion. I do think the wave of late term abortions laws being passed is a step in the wrong direction.
Health Care-I believe single-payer is the way to do go. Health care is a joke in this country and is a tool to keep people from exploring new employment opportunities. It is not an even playing field and is killing small businesses.
Immigration-The "Wall" is stupid. Yes, we need to have secured borders, but the wall is not the way to go. I think the those here already should be able to come out of the shadows and apply for a green card and work toward citizenship. IMO, we tell those who are here illegally, you have six-months of amnesty. Go to the local Social Security Office and register, and then you're safe. After six-months, if you haven't registered and you're found, you are deported, no if's, and's or but's.
Military-I don't completely disagree with Trump in that NATO countries should be ponying up to pay their part. We don't need a Space Force. We need a smaller military that is more tactically capable, as there doesn't seem to be the stomach for large military involvement. I think we have to continue to develop technology, but be smart about costs.
Environment-Little doubt there is climate change, don't care what the cause it, but we need to be smart in how we react. The Green New Deal is way too much, too fast and there isn't any real dollar amount behind the cost. Move people away from fossil fuels, but it will take time. And let me eat my meats.

B-Fly made a good comment about progressing, but in incremental steps. Long time RJ'ers know that I use to be adamently against same-sex marriage. Now, my attitude has changed, and it did before it was legalized. IMO, you be you.

Progressive stances that drive me bat shit crazy in their duplicity...raising the age of smoking to 21, and outlawing flavored tobacco to be sold anywhere other than a liquor store or tobacco store, yet we want to give the right to vote to 16 year olds. I don't get it. How do we tell teenagers they can vote, but can't smoke for another five years. Ridiculous...and don't get me started about not being allowed to by a Big Gulp.