The Great Moderate political thread

[Sour Masher]

Thanks ITC for your articulation of your positions. And for letting me know that someone somewhere is advocating for reducing the voting age to 16 (seems nuts to me). I was not aware of that, and agree, it seems pretty duplicitous to advocate for that in tandem with more nanny state policies.

I agree with a lot of what you put forth above. On the abortion issue, I come from the pro-choice side of things, but meet you in the middle on the notion that late term abortions should be avoided in all but the most extreme and exceptional cases. I do hear folks on the right who are just engaging fear mongering on this issue, claiming all or most or even many progressives want to murder full term babies while they are half out of the mother's womb, some, like Alex Jones, even claiming we want to harvest their organs and cannibalize them. I don't think that is fair or productive rhetoric, but at the same time, I cringe at the positions a very small minority of far left folks take on this issue (that is, that we should allow abortions as late as full term for whatever reasons a doctor or mother may have, without any analysis or oversight of the mental state of the mother or reasons for the decision). I think a fairer debate on this would recognize that almost all women who carry a fetus that far want to have that child and there is most usually a very compelling reason they might pursue termination, such as a late discovery of severe congenital defects that severely impact that length or quality of life. Such decisions are very, very seldom made flippantly, and are usually agonizing to make, and it generally makes a lot of sense for those most invested in that life to make those decisions rather than the government or outsiders not privy to all of the facts.

[The Feral Slasher]

I think it's going to be difficult to put all moderates into the same bucket/category. As for where I'm at. I have no issue voting for a Republican or Democrat, if they hold positions that I agree with.

To put a broad umbrella around my thoughts: I tend to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal. While those don't alway jive, as you need to have $$$ for the society needs that rest in the socially liberal side. I'm not against paying taxes, but I would like to see them be used in better ways and taxation being fair.

One of my biggest tax pet peeves is the gas tax. Democrats like to hike the gas tax, and we need to have money for infrastructure, but the gas tax is horribly regressive and punishes low income drivers. I'd much rather see a mileage tax mixed in with a weight tax.

On some of the other bigger issues:

Abortion-I'm pro-life but understand that the genie is out of the bottle and woman will get abortions. I want them to have access to safe, clean environments for the abortion. I do think the wave of late term abortions laws being passed is a step in the wrong direction.
Health Care-I believe single-payer is the way to do go. Health care is a joke in this country and is a tool to keep people from exploring new employment opportunities. It is not an even playing field and is killing small businesses.
Immigration-The "Wall" is stupid. Yes, we need to have secured borders, but the wall is not the way to go. I think the those here already should be able to come out of the shadows and apply for a green card and work toward citizenship. IMO, we tell those who are here illegally, you have six-months of amnesty. Go to the local Social Security Office and register, and then you're safe. After six-months, if you haven't registered and you're found, you are deported, no if's, and's or but's.
Military-I don't completely disagree with Trump in that NATO countries should be ponying up to pay their part. We don't need a Space Force. We need a smaller military that is more tactically capable, as there doesn't seem to be the stomach for large military involvement. I think we have to continue to develop technology, but be smart about costs.
Environment-Little doubt there is climate change, don't care what the cause it, but we need to be smart in how we react. The Green New Deal is way too much, too fast and there isn't any real dollar amount behind the cost. Move people away from fossil fuels, but it will take time. And let me eat my meats.

B-Fly made a good comment about progressing, but in incremental steps. Long time RJ'ers know that I use to be adamently against same-sex marriage. Now, my attitude has changed, and it did before it was legalized. IMO, you be you.

Progressive stances that drive me bat shit crazy in their duplicity...raising the age of smoking to 21, and outlawing flavored tobacco to be sold anywhere other than a liquor store or tobacco store, yet we want to give the right to vote to 16 year olds. I don't get it. How do we tell teenagers they can vote, but can't smoke for another five years. Ridiculous...and don't get me started about not being allowed to by a Big Gulp.

thanks for responding. I don't neccessarily disagree with you on any of that. So what started all of this was my interpretation of your comments on Biden and Sanders, implying that Biden was a moderate and Sanders not so much (my interpretation, so correct me if I got it wrong). So what is it about Sanders that excludes him from being a "moderate". I won't deny that I really like Sanders, but I don't agree with all of his positions, and to be honest I'd be concerned if I thought he could actually implement everything he wants. So which, if any, of Sanders policies are not moderate ? That might be a good next step in the discussion.

[The Feral Slasher]

thanks for responding. I don't neccessarily disagree with you on any of that. So what started all of this was my interpretation of your comments on Biden and Sanders, implying that Biden was a moderate and Sanders not so much (my interpretation, so correct me if I got it wrong). So what is it about Sanders that excludes him from being a "moderate". I won't deny that I really like Sanders, but I don't agree with all of his positions, and to be honest I'd be concerned if I thought he could actually implement everything he wants. So which, if any, of Sanders policies are not moderate ? That might be a good next step in the discussion.

The fiscally conservative part is probably an area where Sanders doesn't get high marks with many moderates. It's something I wonder about as well.

[The Feral Slasher]

Environment-Little doubt there is climate change, don't care what the cause it, but we need to be smart in how we react. The Green New Deal is way too much, too fast and there isn't any real dollar amount behind the cost. Move people away from fossil fuels, but it will take time. And let me eat my meats.

.

Man, I love barbecue and meat in general. I recently joined my daughter in "Meatless Monday". Not sure where that fits politically, but it is really hard to change habits that people grow up with.

[swampdragon]

Man, I love barbecue and meat in general. I recently joined my daughter in "Meatless Monday". Not sure where that fits politically, but it is really hard to change habits that people grow up with.

As much as Mark Zuckerberg?

[The Feral Slasher]

As much as Mark Zuckerberg?

that was good, I was almost sure it would refer to this

https://mashable.com/article/mark-zuckerberg-killed-a-goat-and-served-it-to-jack-dorsey/#vMDNLB_kjmqt

What was your most memorable encounter with Zuckerberg?
Well, there was a year when he was only eating what he was killing. He made goat for me for dinner. He killed the goat.

In front of you?
No. He killed it before. I guess he kills it. He kills it with a laser gun and then the knife. Then they send it to the butcher.

A . . . laser gun?

[The Feral Slasher]

I think it's going to be difficult to put all moderates into the same bucket/category. As for where I'm at. I have no issue voting for a Republican or Democrat, if they hold positions that I agree with.

To put a broad umbrella around my thoughts: I tend to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal. While those don't alway jive, as you need to have $$$ for the society needs that rest in the socially liberal side. I'm not against paying taxes, but I would like to see them be used in better ways and taxation being fair.

One of my biggest tax pet peeves is the gas tax. Democrats like to hike the gas tax, and we need to have money for infrastructure, but the gas tax is horribly regressive and punishes low income drivers. I'd much rather see a mileage tax mixed in with a weight tax.

On some of the other bigger issues:

Abortion-I'm pro-life but understand that the genie is out of the bottle and woman will get abortions. I want them to have access to safe, clean environments for the abortion. I do think the wave of late term abortions laws being passed is a step in the wrong direction.
Health Care-I believe single-payer is the way to do go. Health care is a joke in this country and is a tool to keep people from exploring new employment opportunities. It is not an even playing field and is killing small businesses.
Immigration-The "Wall" is stupid. Yes, we need to have secured borders, but the wall is not the way to go. I think the those here already should be able to come out of the shadows and apply for a green card and work toward citizenship. IMO, we tell those who are here illegally, you have six-months of amnesty. Go to the local Social Security Office and register, and then you're safe. After six-months, if you haven't registered and you're found, you are deported, no if's, and's or but's.
Military-I don't completely disagree with Trump in that NATO countries should be ponying up to pay their part. We don't need a Space Force. We need a smaller military that is more tactically capable, as there doesn't seem to be the stomach for large military involvement. I think we have to continue to develop technology, but be smart about costs.
Environment-Little doubt there is climate change, don't care what the cause it, but we need to be smart in how we react. The Green New Deal is way too much, too fast and there isn't any real dollar amount behind the cost. Move people away from fossil fuels, but it will take time. And let me eat my meats.

B-Fly made a good comment about progressing, but in incremental steps. Long time RJ'ers know that I use to be adamently against same-sex marriage. Now, my attitude has changed, and it did before it was legalized. IMO, you be you.

Progressive stances that drive me bat shit crazy in their duplicity...raising the age of smoking to 21, and outlawing flavored tobacco to be sold anywhere other than a liquor store or tobacco store, yet we want to give the right to vote to 16 year olds. I don't get it. How do we tell teenagers they can vote, but can't smoke for another five years. Ridiculous...and don't get me started about not being allowed to by a Big Gulp.

so are abortion, smoking age, and Big Gulps even issues ? I would be very surprised if they seperated Biden and Sanders .

[Kevin Seitzer]

One of my biggest tax pet peeves is the gas tax. Democrats like to hike the gas tax, and we need to have money for infrastructure, but the gas tax is horribly regressive and punishes low income drivers. I'd much rather see a mileage tax mixed in with a weight tax.

If we're going to have a weight tax, we will need to get the weight loss threads cranked up again around here!

[In the Corn]

so are abortion, smoking age, and Big Gulps even issues ? I would be very surprised if they seperated Biden and Sanders .

I don't know where Bernie and Joe are with regard to abortion rights. I'm sure further to the left than I am, but again, it's a losing battle so that's an issue (don't tell my evangelic friends that I tend to ignore). The voting age an Big Gulp are more related to local politics, but these are things that the liberal left seems latch onto for some reason. Don't be a Nanny State.

IMO, the governemnt should stay away from personal liberties. If I want a freakin' Big Gulp, cigarette, scotch, ice cream, meat, etc. let me have them.

[The Feral Slasher]

I don't know where Bernie and Joe are with regard to abortion rights. I'm sure further to the left than I am, but again, it's a losing battle so that's an issue (don't tell my evangelic friends that I tend to ignore). The voting age an Big Gulp are more related to local politics, but these are things that the liberal left seems latch onto for some reason. Don't be a Nanny State.

IMO, the governemnt should stay away from personal liberties. If I want a freakin' Big Gulp, cigarette, scotch, ice cream, meat, etc. let me have them.

I made the mistake of buying a sweetened beverage in Seattle. The taxes doubled the price.

[In the Corn]

I made the mistake of buying a sweetened beverage in Seattle. The taxes doubled the price.

[B-Fly]

IMO, the governemnt should stay away from personal liberties. If I want a freakin' Big Gulp, cigarette, scotch, ice cream, meat, etc. let me have them.

Although, interestingly enough, it seems like moderates/centrists, who claim to be practical and cost-conscious and data-informed, are often the ones who are first to promote and embrace "nanny state" initiatives. Mike Bloomberg, who if he had run would have likely been deemed the most centrist/moderate of the Democratic bunch, is infamous for some of his nanny state type proposals. Schwarzenegger on the GOP side embraced many such initiatives too, IIRC.

[In the Corn]

As much as Mark Zuckerberg?

Where is his blue/gray shirt? He's really stepping out with the purple.