Ilhan Omar controversy

[B-Fly]

Wow, I'll make sure to bookmark this for her eulogy... it's insane to me that you think her comment was intentionally inflammatory.

To think that someone already receiving death threats would intentionally make statements to invite more death threats is completely bizarre.

I applaud her for not being so cowed by the death threats that she'd hold her tongue for sake of self-preservation. She's courageously outspoken and challenging.

And not to draw any equivalency, but President Trump receives lots of death threats as well, and it doesn't stop him from making statements that he knows will piss off liberals and Democrats. So does Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. I do think Ilhan Omar may be at greater risk because of the reaction to her saying those things as a hijab-wearing Black woman, though, and I think the government needs to ensure she is effectively guarded/protected.

[Teenwolf]

I applaud her for not being so cowed by the death threats that she'd hold her tongue for sake of self-preservation. She's courageously outspoken and challenging.

And not to draw any equivalency, but President Trump receives lots of death threats as well, and it doesn't stop him from making statements that he knows will piss off liberals and Democrats. So does Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. I do think Ilhan Omar may be at greater risk because of the reaction to her saying those things as a hijab-wearing Black woman, though, and I think the government needs to ensure she is effectively guarded/protected.

I'm confused, is she courageous or is she intentionally flippant?

The 9/11 comment is even more benign than her "all about the Benjamins" tweet. She is attacked for a lack of specificity, and smeared for having ill intent when she clearly doesn't. If you were talking about the Yankees run of championships, and for some reason 9/11 came up, you wouldn't launch into a diatribe about 9/11, you would continue with the Yankees otherwise you lose the audience. So she gave it respect by implying "we all remember the horrors of 9/11" without having to sidetrack her main point of discussion.

[B-Fly]

I'm confused, is she courageous or is she intentionally flippant?

The 9/11 comment is even more benign than her "all about the Benjamins" tweet. She is attacked for a lack of specificity, and smeared for having ill intent when she clearly doesn't. If you were talking about the Yankees run of championships, and for some reason 9/11 came up, you wouldn't launch into a diatribe about 9/11, you would continue with the Yankees otherwise you lose the audience. So she gave it respect by implying "we all remember the horrors of 9/11" without having to sidetrack her main point of discussion.

Both. Her "all about the Benjamins" tweet is another example. She uses flippant, in your face language in the course of making points that are politically courageous. And that contributes to the heat she draws. Which I think she understands and has decided not to be chastened by. Nothing she has said merits the grotesque attacks she's received, though.

[Teenwolf]

Both. Her "all about the Benjamins" tweet is another example. She uses flippant, in your face language in the course of making points that are politically courageous. And that contributes to the heat she draws. Which I think she understands and has decided not to be chastened by. Nothing she has said merits the grotesque attacks she's received, though.

This is all reasonable, but we disagree that "some people did some things" was intended in any inflammatory way, and buying into the narrative that she is attempting to piss off right wingers is diluting her message. It turns her into a caricature who simply seeks to inflame tension. I'm not into that.

I agree that the Benjamin's tweet was intentionally inflammatory (but used clumsy phrasing which she rightfully apologized for), but the new controversy is 100% manufactured, IMO.

[B-Fly]

Thinking further on this, compare Ilhan Omar's record of controversial statements with Bernie Sanders's. His platform and Omar's do not materially diverge. But as he demonstrated on Fox, he generally can stump effectively for that platform without inserting phrases that inflame large chunks of the electorate by seeming to dismiss Americans' fears or grievances, and without seeming to stereotype other groups. I recognize that Bernie Sanders benefits from white, male privilege in this comparison, as well as age and experience. And that's probably a material difference that shouldn't be glossed over. But I think many of the young progressive firebrands, much like many of Sanders's supporters online who have also drawn a lot of heat, are less interested than Sanders himself in drawing the American "masses" to the cause, and thus are less inclined than Sanders to consciously avoid pissing them off.

[nots]

I think her comment was purposefully inflammatory.
Also, as has been noted everywhere, she was wrong about when and why CAIR was founded.

[Kevin Seitzer]

On the "some people did something" comment, am I completely misunderstanding the context of what she said, or are her attackers?

Her attackers seem to be saying that she meant the following:
Some people = some random people, we don't care who they were and it doesn't matter that they were Muslim
Did something = they might have done something bad, but whatever they did was really of no major consequence

I assume from the context of her speech that she actually meant this:
Some people = they were a small group out of Muslims worldwide, yet all Muslims are getting lumped with them unfairly
Did something = they acted in a way that didn't represent the faith or views of the vast majority of Muslims

[In the Corn]

How many times have we heard, "Words matter." Any why do we hear that, because they do. Anyone who has a taken a level 100 Communication class knows that the message is in the receiver's perception. While Ilhan was a address Muslims, and they were tracking with her, she has to know that speech was going to be hacked up for sound bites, both for and against her. The three sentences she spoke were like a rag-arm reliever throwing a meatball to Bryce Harper.

She's inexperienced, but you can't continually make these missteps. I also would say that you cannot, repeat cannot trivialize 9/11, in this nation. And her choice of words does that. She could have been more precise in statement, "A handful of extremist, not representative of Muslims, committed a horrible act on 9/11." Yes, a couple more words, but it would be more accurate, and she would avoid the hot water.

TW, not to single you out, but I don't think you, as a Canadian, understand 9/11, as much as a citizen of the USA. I would also say, that I don't have the same context as B-Fly, who literally lived through that day.

[DMT]

Wow, I'll make sure to bookmark this for her eulogy... it's insane to me that you think her comment was intentionally inflammatory.

To think that someone already receiving death threats would intentionally make statements to invite more death threats is completely bizarre.

Again with an over-the-top response. Dude, chill out!

[Sour Masher]

I agree with everything B-Fly has written about Omar.

As far as Sanders' being criticized for having a bit of money from writing his book, it is the most ridiculous criticism so far of him. I was also impressed he went this early into the liion's den and do okay for himself.

[The Feral Slasher]

How many times have we heard, "Words matter." Any why do we hear that, because they do. Anyone who has a taken a level 100 Communication class knows that the message is in the receiver's perception. While Ilhan was a address Muslims, and they were tracking with her, she has to know that speech was going to be hacked up for sound bites, both for and against her. The three sentences she spoke were like a rag-arm reliever throwing a meatball to Bryce Harper.

She's inexperienced, but you can't continually make these missteps. I also would say that you cannot, repeat cannot trivialize 9/11, in this nation. And her choice of words does that. She could have been more precise in statement, "A handful of extremist, not representative of Muslims, committed a horrible act on 9/11." Yes, a couple more words, but it would be more accurate, and she would avoid the hot water.

TW, not to single you out, but I don't think you, as a Canadian, understand 9/11, as much as a citizen of the USA. I would also say, that I don't have the same context as B-Fly, who literally lived through that day.

I think her perspective is that America is ok treating Muslims as second class citizens. Maybe she has to say something controversial to start a conversation about that. I think her perspective is also that it is a bigger transgression (in America) to "disrespect" or "trivialize" 9/11 than to treat Muslims as second class citizens.

[onejayhawk]

On the "some people did something" comment, am I completely misunderstanding the context of what she said, or are her attackers?

Her attackers seem to be saying that she meant the following:
Some people = some random people, we don't care who they were and it doesn't matter that they were Muslim
Did something = they might have done something bad, but whatever they did was really of no major consequence

I assume from the context of her speech that she actually meant this:
Some people = they were a small group out of Muslims worldwide, yet all Muslims are getting lumped with them unfairly
Did something = they acted in a way that didn't represent the faith or views of the vast majority of Muslims

In some senses they are both right. Omar does say something extremely insensitive but the reaction is excessive.

One problem is that she appears to be genuinely anti-Jewish or at least anti-Israel. Israel supporters are quick to take offense.

J

[Sour Masher]

I think her perspective is that America is ok treating Muslims as second class citizens. Maybe she has to say something controversial to start a conversation about that. I think her perspective is also that it is a bigger transgression (in America) to "disrespect" or "trivialize" 9/11 than to treat Muslims as second class citizens.

Doing the former is no way to stop the latter from happening. I think a lot of the criticism she faces is unfair and over the top, but I also agree with B-Fly's assessment. I also disagree with her rhetorical tactics. The new guard of progressives isn't afraid to be loud and controversial with their positions. To an extent, that can be a good thing, but at times, I don't think it does them or their causes any favors as it alienates potential allies in the middle. Then again, it works for Trump, so who knows? Fight fire with fire and all. Not my preferred method.

[Sour Masher]

In some senses they are both right. Omar does say something extremely insensitive but the reaction is excessive.

One problem is that she appears to be genuinely anti-Jewish or at least anti-Israel. Israel supporters are quick to take offense.

J

A claim against her of being anti-Jewish, given the current evidence, seems unfounded and offensive. On the other hand, her being critical of Israel in relation to Palestine is in line with just about all other progressives, so I don't think that hurts her standing among her peers.

[In the Corn]

I think her perspective is that America is ok treating Muslims as second class citizens. Maybe she has to say something controversial to start a conversation about that. I think her perspective is also that it is a bigger transgression (in America) to "disrespect" or "trivialize" 9/11 than to treat Muslims as second class citizens.

I don't disagree that she may be trying to start a conversation, but she's quickly losing credibility to be the conversation. Being bombastic from the start rarely leads you to being someone that people feel they want to have dialogue. It's like the belligerent regular drunk at the bar. Everyone knows he's there and is gonna talk smack, but he's continually dismissed.