Ilhan Omar controversy

[Sour Masher]

Here is a link to the transcript of what they call the "key section of the speech"

https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/col...eech-20190415/

It was a good speech, except for that one overly dismissive line. I saw one comment in the comment section that reminded me of another recent time someone was offensively overly dismissive and rightly got called out on it by Obama and others on the left: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.b05800b861be

Anyone remember when Jeb dismissively said, "stuff happen" when asked what government's solutions could be for mass shootings? I don't think he was trying to hurt survivors or insult the memories of those who were lost, but it was a poor choice of words, because it gave the impression of being dismissive. He also doubled down and got super defensive when challenged on his wording.

[Kevin Seitzer]

It was a good speech, except for that one overly dismissive line. I saw one comment in the comment section that reminded me of another recent time someone was offensively overly dismissive and rightly got called out on it by Obama and others on the left: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.b05800b861be

Anyone remember when Jeb dismissively said, "stuff happen" when asked what government's solutions could be for mass shootings?

I still fail to see that line as dismissive. Why is my reading of it inaccurate?

[Sour Masher]

I still fail to see that line as dismissive. Why is my reading of it inaccurate?

I wouldn't argue that your reading is inaccurate. I, personally, would have phrased it more carefully, especially in a prepared speech, which I believe this was. Below I've added in brackets how I'd have suggested a change, if I were giving her notes on her speech.

"Because here’s the truth — here’s the truth: Far too long, we have lived with the discomfort of being a second-class citizen, and frankly, I’m tired of it, and every single Muslim in this country should be tired of it. CAIR was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something [you don't want to give the impression that your are dismissing or minimizing the 9/11 attack, so replace this phrase with something like--"because a small group of radicals committed a horrific act of terrorism"] that all of us were [being maligned and mistreated for their crimes] and starting to lose access to our civil liberties. So you can’t just say that today someone is looking at me strange, that I am going to try to make myself look pleasant. You have to say, “This person is looking at me strange. I am not comfortable with it. I am going to go talk to them and ask them why.” Because that is a right you have.

[Sour Masher]

My point in bringing up Jeb is to show Omar isn't the first person to phrase something indelicately. We should spend more time talking about substantive policies and stances and not parsing every little things she says. But she should know she is under a microscope, and she needs to be careful with her phrasing, just like all politicians should. And as B-Fly has indicated, this isn't one small phrase, but a pattern of tone with the new progressive guard. I just wish they'd adopt Obama's rhetorical tact, even if they disagree with him on substance.

[nots]

I can’t imagine the late Daniel Akaka or Maize Horono saying about Pearl Harbor, ‘some people did some stuff’. 3000 people died in an actual attack (not a rhetorical one like we often read about on these pages)on US soil. If you want to reference that attack as a way of making a point about how poorly the Muslim community has been treated, you better give it a lot of deference, tread lightly and not gloss over it. Unless of course your objective is to make a point by saying something controversial, which, given the audience she was speaking to and her past inflammatory statements as a way of making her point, seems likely to me.
Others are certainly free to interpret it as they wish.

[Sour Masher]

I can’t imagine the late Daniel Akaka or Maize Horono saying about Pearl Harbor, ‘some people did some stuff’. 3000 people died in an actual attack (not a rhetorical one like we often read about on these pages)on US soil. If you want to reference that attack as a way of making a point about how poorly the Muslim community has been treated, you better give it a lot of deference, tread lightly and not gloss over it. Unless of course your objective is to make a point by saying something controversial, which, given the audience she was speaking to and her past inflammatory statements as a way of making her point, seems likely to me.
Others are certainly free to interpret it as they wish.

I'm the ultimate fence sitter on this issue, I guess, but I can't help but ask you what you thought about Jeb Bush's comments about mass shootings and doubling down that people shouldn't get hung on on his phrasing? As you can see, I agree with you on Omar's phrasing. But is she being held to a different standard then Jeb was in terms of the level of response against her?

Or what about when our military calls the milling of innocent civilians, often Muslims these days "collateral damage?" Omar's phrasing was insensitive in minimizing the event, but she is far from the only person who does that.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I can’t imagine the late Daniel Akaka or Maize Horono saying about Pearl Harbor, ‘some people did some stuff’. 3000 people died in an actual attack (not a rhetorical one like we often read about on these pages)on US soil. If you want to reference that attack as a way of making a point about how poorly the Muslim community has been treated, you better give it a lot of deference, tread lightly and not gloss over it. Unless of course your objective is to make a point by saying something controversial, which, given the audience she was speaking to and her past inflammatory statements as a way of making her point, seems likely to me.
Others are certainly free to interpret it as they wish.

Jeez, no, she does not owe some special deference because she's a Muslim. That's kinda part of the point. Her point is that some people did something bad and other unrelated people are being punished for it. How horrible the thing they did isn't part of her point. It didn't need to be part of her point. It's understood that what was done on 9/11 was horrible, otherwise there wouldn't be any blame or discrimination resulting from it. In no way did she say it wasn't horrible, allude that it wasn't horrible, suggest that maybe it was okay or inconsequential or anything like that. You are falsely and unfairly reading that into her speech because you want to hear it there, and that's your failing, not hers.

[nots]

What he said was dumb and insensitive. He was roundly criticized by folks in here (certainly to a greater degree than she has been).
He was also speaking off the cuff (though any politician with an ounce of common sense should have seen that question coming and had an answer prepared—it’s almost like he was a bad campaigner, lol). Her remarks were prepared and she has a history of inflammatory rhetoric, where he really doesn’t. But yeah, he was insensitive and foolish if not intentionally inflammatory.
And to be clear, it’s certainly her prerogative to be inflammatory. I just think that people trying to rationalize that she didn’t know what she was saying or don’t understand how millions of people that lived thru 9/11 would be offended or upset about that (especially given our state of being upset about everything) are misguided or being intellectually dishonest.

[The Feral Slasher]

Jeez, no, she does not owe some special deference because she's a Muslim. That's kinda part of the point. Her point is that some people did something bad and other unrelated people are being punished for it. How horrible the thing they did isn't part of her point. It didn't need to be part of her point. It's understood that what was done on 9/11 was horrible, otherwise there wouldn't be any blame or discrimination resulting from it. In no way did she say it wasn't horrible, allude that it wasn't horrible, suggest that maybe it was okay or inconsequential or anything like that. You are falsely and unfairly reading that into her speech because you want to hear it there, and that's your failing, not hers.

yeah, this is exactly how I interpret it. What's amazing to me (not really unfortunately) is that the whole point of her speech is completely ignored. Whether or not she paid proper respect to a tragic event is far, far more important than if there is ongoing mis-treatment of Muslim Americans.

[Sour Masher]

yeah, this is exactly how I interpret it. What's amazing to me (not really unfortunately) is that the whole point of her speech is completely ignored. Whether or not she paid proper respect to a tragic event is far, far more important than if there is ongoing mis-treatment of Muslim Americans.

Isnt that the Colin Kaepernick story in a nutshell? As a politician, should we expect Omar to be very careful with her phrasing so she doesnt allow her larger, important message to get sidestepped for a trumped up controversy? It isnt like there isnt precedent for such a thing. Or,.conversely, would her speech been entirely ignored if it didnt have a phrase that could be taken as offensive and thus her speech got way more attention? Idk.

[Sour Masher]

To me, words matter. But actions matter even more. It is interesting that some critics of Omar on the GOP side are against the bill she co-sponsored for extending 9/11 victim's compensation. I have only read summaries of the bill, not the whole thing. What is there to oppose in such a bill? It seems like a no brainer thing to do, and for all those who have been directly impacted by 9/11, I imagine yes or no votes on that are far, far more important than one insensitive phrase in a speech.

[The Feral Slasher]

Isnt that the Colin Kaepernick story in a nutshell? As a politician, should we expect Omar to be very careful with her phrasing so she doesnt allow her larger, important message to get sidestepped for a trumped up controversy? It isnt like there isnt precedent for such a thing. Or,.conversely, would her speech been entirely ignored if it didnt have a phrase that could be taken as offensive and thus her speech got way more attention? Idk.

that was one of the points I made earlier, it's been 17 years since 9/11 what discussion has there been regarding the impact on Muslims ? Has it ever been discussed on this board ? Are there ever articles in major newspapers that draw any attention? Maybe she should be more polite and just go away.

[Sour Masher]

that was one of the points I made earlier, it's been 17 years since 9/11 what discussion has there been regarding the impact on Muslims ? Has it ever been discussed on this board ? Are there ever articles in major newspapers that draw any attention? Maybe she should be more polite and just go away.

I don't want to read into her intent, but if she threw in that phrase because she knew it would get attention, I reiterate I don't agree with that tactic. I think there are other ways to draw attention to this issue. She could give that same fiery speech at more venues. She could talk about this issue with equal passion more often, and on more platforms. She has those platforms in a way Kaepernick did not. You can't tell politicians to shut up and go away. There are job is to talk about issue and talk about how they plan to address them.

ETA: I think a more effective rhetorical strategy is to embrace fully the pain and anger and fear that leads to the bigotry and mistreatment many of the over 3 million law-abiding Muslims in this country face and say, yes, that pain and anger at that attack are valid and real and need to be acknowledged, but you and I, Americans of all faiths, and Muslims across the world, are victims of that extremism. She needs to make the message that radical extremist kill more Muslims than non-Muslims in the world. The vast majority of Muslims in the country and across the world are victims and allies in this fight. I think that common ground approach is the better path, but it isn't the strategy that seems to be being embraced at the moment.

[The Feral Slasher]

I don't want to read into her intent, but if she threw in that phrase because she knew it would get attention, I reiterate I don't agree with that tactic. I think there are other ways to draw attention to this issue. She could give that same fiery speech at more venues. She could talk about this issue with equal passion more often, and on more platforms. She has those platforms in a way Kaepernick did not. You can't tell politicians to shut up and go away. There are job is to talk about issue and talk about how they plan to address them.

ETA: I think a more effective rhetorical strategy is to embrace fully the pain and anger and fear that leads to the bigotry and mistreatment many of the over 3 million law-abiding Muslims in this country face and say, yes, that pain and anger at that attack are valid and real and need to be acknowledged, but you and I, Americans of all faiths, and Muslims across the world, are victims of that extremism. She needs to make the message that radical extremist kill more Muslims than non-Muslims in the world. The vast majority of Muslims in the country and across the world are victims and allies in this fight. I think that common ground approach is the better path, but it isn't the strategy that seems to be being embraced at the moment.

I honestly don't think the phrase she used was particularly inflammatory or extreme, apparently I'm one of the few who don't think that. That said, I have a really hard time criticizing her for doing what she thinks she has to do to draw attention to what she believes is a problem, that victimizes her and her people, and one that has had absolutely zero focus for over 17 years.

[The Feral Slasher]

I don't want to read into her intent, but if she threw in that phrase because she knew it would get attention, I reiterate I don't agree with that tactic. I think there are other ways to draw attention to this issue. She could give that same fiery speech at more venues. She could talk about this issue with equal passion more often, and on more platforms. She has those platforms in a way Kaepernick did not. You can't tell politicians to shut up and go away. There are job is to talk about issue and talk about how they plan to address them.

ETA: I think a more effective rhetorical strategy is to embrace fully the pain and anger and fear that leads to the bigotry and mistreatment many of the over 3 million law-abiding Muslims in this country face and say, yes, that pain and anger at that attack are valid and real and need to be acknowledged, but you and I, Americans of all faiths, and Muslims across the world, are victims of that extremism. She needs to make the message that radical extremist kill more Muslims than non-Muslims in the world. The vast majority of Muslims in the country and across the world are victims and allies in this fight. I think that common ground approach is the better path, but it isn't the strategy that seems to be being embraced at the moment.

regarding the point in bold, I think she has probably concluded that no one in America gives a fuck about this.