So Amazon turns down NYC -

[nots]

So if Im only providing 10 jobs I shouldn't get the same tax advantages ? Just the big guys ?

In your utopia or in the real world?

[The Feral Slasher]

In your utopia or in the real world?

says the libertarian, lol

[nots]

says the libertarian, lol

Quasi-Libertarian. I feel like I have mentioned that a couple of times before but you seem unwilling to understand or acknowledge it.
BTW—I thought you said you were done posting about this a couple of hours ago. Another factual inaccuracy I guess.

[nots]

I'll bow out now and just leave you and nots to celebrate the government giving money to Amazon to support jobs. Like any good free market proponent would do.

Hmmmm

[The Feral Slasher]

Hmmmm

Sorry, I lied. Again. I do that

[The Feral Slasher]

Quasi-Libertarian. I feel like I have mentioned that a couple of times before but you seem unwilling to understand or acknowledge it.
BTW—I thought you said you were done posting about this a couple of hours ago. Another factual inaccuracy I guess.

exactly, I'm a liar and an idiot as we have established and I've admitted to. Glad for the clarification on your status as a Quasi-libertarian who supports corporate welfare for the big companies with jobs. I'm done now.







or am I ?

[baldgriff]

Capitalism is an economic system that is characterized by private property, freedom of economic exchange, competitive markets and limited government intervention. While the government doesn't set prices in a free market, the market does through the law of supply and demand.

I can respect that you look at this transaction as a "transfer of wealth" and that mom and pop will not have the ability to formulate a transaction like that of the Amazon's, Wal-Mart's, Home Depot's and other large Corporations. Of course we were saying this 20 and 30 years ago about places like Sears, JC Penny, K-Mart, Circuit City, Blockbuster and the like and how the small business couldn't compete with them.

This transaction/trade is still supply/demand driven though. NYC has a need for capital and quickly as they have infrastructure issues galore between bridges and subway repair - let alone paying teachers more. So Amazon has the jobs to offer and NYC offered to buy those jobs. All of those jobs would necessitate new or revitalize old businesses - many mom and pop's that dont directly compete with Amazon.

My father in law used to run/own a hardware store. He competed in his area out of convenience - but he told me its a terrible business because you have to keep so much inventory on hand. It was to expensive to stock everything in his store. He was still competing in his space and eventually sold it and moved on to other things.

I am a Libertarian - but more importantly I am pragmatic.
So yes while Amazon will get some tax credit for a period of time, there will be numerous other businesses that will come into being and likely flourish because the Local Government made a trade of goods (to the benefit of all included and to the potential benefit of those that come after).

There is nothing stopping anyone going forward from directly competing with Amazon - they just have to find a way to deliver in a manner that is more reliable and cheaper. There is also nothing stopping any of those Mom and Pops from growing in some other arena which may cause other businesses to go out of business.

Competition has Winners and Losers. Amazon appears to be a huge winner at this point. Oh and just as a reminder - Amazon was started in a garage and competed with everyone. They found a way to do it cheaper and more efficiently than anyone else - it seems that they may have won that competition. Winners get offers in the free market that losers dont (its the nature of winning)

So while I can understand your concern about the initial $3B tax credit - from the Libertarian point of view. The pragmatist in me looks at it and says - Why would anyone compete with Amazon - they won the largest portion of that specific market. The net gain to the Local Municipality, along with the multiple transactions that will happen in multiple markets from this Local Government investment appears to create more free market opportunities than it may curtail.

I am a Libertarian - make no mistake about that. I also understand if a city goes bankrupt or cant pay for its infrastructure and upkeep people will leave the area which ends up in places like Detroit (where there are plenty of empty houses and little business is being started or revitalized).

[nots]

[QUOTE=nots;332958]

I mean, yes, subsidizing Amazon is stupid, but it’s certainly understandable given the amount of tax revenue they are bringing to your city. It’s also stupid to battle to get them out of your city (with its crumbling infrastructure) once they have selected you. It’s also stupid to have a $700B defense budget or to pour money into social programs with duboius (at best) results or to advocate tearing down our already existing southern border wall. Government makes a lot of stupid decisions IMO....I just don’t think Amazon’s tax break is near the top of the list.

Yes, that certainly reads like I support corporate welfare—especially the sentence where I say ‘subsidizing Amazon is stupid’.

[The Feral Slasher]

Capitalism is an economic system that is characterized by private property, freedom of economic exchange, competitive markets and limited government intervention. While the government doesn't set prices in a free market, the market does through the law of supply and demand.

How can you rationalize a payment of money or tax credits to Amazon as creating competitive markets ? It does the opposite.

[DMT]

Aligning the interests of the state with monopolies sounds more like fascism than libertarianism.

[The Feral Slasher]

[QUOTE=nots;333026]

Yes, that certainly reads like I support corporate welfare—especially the sentence where I say ‘subsidizing Amazon is stupid’.

i guess I don't understand why you are arguing with me then, that was my whole point

[The Feral Slasher]

Aligning the interests of the state with monopolies sounds more like fascism than libertarianism.

perhaps you misunderstand ?

[nots]

[QUOTE=The Feral Slasher;333030]

i guess I don't understand why you are arguing with me then, that was my whole point

Let me boil it down.
I don’t think NYC should be giving tax benefits to Amazon.
The reality is cities are going to give tax benefits to Amazon in order to gain the jobs, prestige and most importantly, tax money from its employees.
If the people of NYC are in favor of Amazon coming, and Amazon selects NYC, I think it’s dumb for the elected Reps of NYC to now discourage Amazon from coming.
I don’t believe NYC should be giving tax benefits to Amazon.

[DMT]

perhaps you misunderstand ?

Probably...because there are winners and losers, and the winners should get more because they deserve more. It's the natural state of things. It's only pragmatic to acknowledge this obvious truth.

[The Feral Slasher]

[QUOTE=nots;333034]

Let me boil it down.
I don’t think NYC should be giving tax benefits to Amazon.
The reality is cities are going to give tax benefits to Amazon in order to gain the jobs, prestige and most importantly, tax money from its employees.
If the people of NYC are in favor of Amazon coming, and Amazon selects NYC, I think it’s dumb for the elected Reps of NYC to now discourage Amazon from coming.
I don’t believe NYC should be giving tax benefits to Amazon.

again, that is what I said consistently thruout this post. I never commented a single time about the reps of NYC or there actions, but apparently I wasn't clear ?