So Amazon turns down NYC -

[The Feral Slasher]

This is the 3rd time I have asked this question now.... Still waiting

me too, not sure how to respond.

[baldgriff]

Sorry dude, corporations negotiating with the state for subsidies/money is the exact oppostite free market capitalism. Don't know what else to say.

I ask the question based on this statement. Again - are you saying that Governments should not trade with Private Business?

Edit to add: What else do local governments have as bargaining chips?

[The Feral Slasher]

I ask the question based on this statement. Again - are you saying that Governments should not trade with Private Business?

Edit to add: What else do local governments have as bargaining chips?

Dude, i acknowledged that you won. Corporate subsidies are totally compatible with libertarian/free market philosophy. I also made up an inacrrate $3 billion dollar number in a shameless attempt to strengthen my argument. plus i think I lied a few times, as you pointed out. you won !!!!

[baldgriff]

Dude -
The SNARK runs deep with you. Honestly its really frustrating when attempting to actually have a conversation.

This isnt about winning... Its about sharing ideas and trying to find some semblance of agreement/understanding.

You may not like Local Governments giving subsidies, what other things can the Local Government use to attract businesses to it's area?

[The Feral Slasher]

Dude -
The SNARK runs deep with you. Honestly its really frustrating when attempting to actually have a conversation.

This isnt about winning... Its about sharing ideas and trying to find some semblance of agreement/understanding.

You may not like Local Governments giving subsidies, what other things can the Local Government use to attract businesses to it's area?

calling me an idiot and a liar didn't really further the conversation to be honest. Nor did nots trying to hold me responsible for your apparently inaccurate information. That said, I tried to not focus on this particular data point and note that government giving money to corporations to buy jobs is the exact opposite of what free market capitalism and libertarianism is about. You and nots disagree and I'm fine with that at this point. I never tried to make the argument whether this isn't or is a good deal for NY, rather, in the aggregate this has the effect of transferring wealth from the government to Amazon. If you guys support that because that is how things are done, fine. That is all, I hope that is clear and snark-free.

[baldgriff]

That does not answer my question. Its a really good re-cap of the past number of posts and your attitude towards them. However, it does not answer my question. I have answered many of your and explained my rational - which you seem to disagree with.

Do you believe that Governments should not trade with Private Business?

This government is participating in this transaction - they are not dictating the terms and other municipalities could make a bid for Amazons' business? So how is this not a free market exchange?


Edit to add: My apologies if the snark finally got to me and I called you names.

[The Feral Slasher]

That does not answer my question. Its a really good re-cap of the past number of posts and your attitude towards them. However, it does not answer my question. I have answered many of your and explained my rational - which you seem to disagree with.

Do you believe that Governments should not trade with Private Business?

This government is participating in this transaction - they are not dictating the terms and other municipalities could make a bid for Amazons' business? So how is this not a free market exchange?


Edit to add: My apologies if the snark finally got to me and I called you names.

Apology accepted. Sorry, but I don't have the patience to continue further. I think I summarized my original point well, and I understand that you disagree with it. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[baldgriff]

Apology accepted. Sorry, but I don't have the patience to continue further. I think I summarized my original point well, and I understand that you disagree with it. We will just have to agree to disagree.

I dont even know what your original point was quite honestly because you only offered counters to what I stated and you have for the 5th time now not offered up a response to a question.

Do you believe that Government should not trade with Private Business? and how would NYC luring Amazon to its market area not a free market trade?

[The Feral Slasher]

I dont even know what your original point was quite honestly because you only offered counters to what I stated and you have for the 5th time now not offered up a response to a question.

Do you believe that Government should not trade with Private Business? and how would NYC luring Amazon to its market area not a free market trade?

You could read my posts 3, 4, or 80 which all summarize my point I believe. If you disagree that is ok.

[baldgriff]

Ok - so now that I re-read post 3 and 4.

Please answer my question(s)

Do you believe that Government should not trade with Private Business? and how would NYC luring Amazon to its market area not a free market trade?

[The Feral Slasher]

Ok - so now that I re-read post 3 and 4.

Please answer my question(s)

Do you believe that Government should not trade with Private Business? and how would NYC luring Amazon to its market area not a free market trade?

Government has to interact with private business. governments paying subsidies/changing tax codes/ etc to lure large companies is the exact opposite of free market trade. Why would NYC change the tax code for Amazon but not for Joe's corner shop ? They are interfering in the market place and making the playing field unlevel. Anyone trying to compete with Amazon is at a disadvantage because the same laws don't apply to them. More to the point, the effect of municipalities bidding on Amazon, Walmart, Home Depot, etc, is a transfer of wealth from the government to the corporations and an unlevel playing field because how can mom and pop compete with Walmart if they get millions of dollars from the government. Smaller businesses don't get those incentives and advantages and will be run out of business. Is that competiton ? Is that free markets ?

[The Feral Slasher]

Government has to interact with private business. governments paying subsidies/changing tax codes/ etc to lure large companies is the exact opposite of free market trade. Why would NYC change the tax code for Amazon but not for Joe's corner shop ? They are interfering in the market place and making the playing field unlevel. Anyone trying to compete with Amazon is at a disadvantage because the same laws don't apply to them. More to the point, the effect of municipalities bidding on Amazon, Walmart, Home Depot, etc, is a transfer of wealth from the government to the corporations and an unlevel playing field because how can mom and pop compete with Walmart if they get millions of dollars from the government. Smaller businesses don't get those incentives and advantages and will be run out of business. Is that competiton ? Is that free markets ?

Here's another example. Are local and state governments bidding to get a Walmart store compatible with free market captalism ? Aren't they getting a huge benefit not available to their competitors ?

http://www.walmartsubsidywatch.org/

A secret behind Wal-Mart’s rapid expansion in the United States has been its extensive use of public money. This includes more than $1.2 billion in tax breaks, free land, infrastructure assistance, low-cost financing and outright grants from state and local governments around the country.

[The Feral Slasher]

Should I also get 3 billion dollars to move my business to NY ? Or does just Amazon get that benefit ? Hmmmm.

[nots]

Should I also get 3 billion dollars to move my business to NY ? Or does just Amazon get that benefit ? Hmmmm.

Are you providing 25,000 high paying jobs?
And again, they aren’t getting $3B.

[The Feral Slasher]

Are you providing 25,000 high paying jobs?
And again, they aren’t getting $3B.

So if Im only providing 10 jobs I shouldn't get the same tax advantages ? Just the big guys ?