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Bill Belichick's place in sports history

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  • Bill Belichick's place in sports history

    I think we can agree that Belichick has surpassed Bill Walsh, Lombardi, Shula etc and is clearly the best coach in the history of the NFL. But what about sports, in general? Understanding that it's very difficult to compare across sports and eras, where does he stand next to coaches like Wooden, Summit, Aurebach, Bryant, Phil Jackson, Bowman etc?

  • #2
    I’m ruling out college, where certain schools have a major recruiting advantage.

    Auerbach & Jackson had some of the greatest basketball players in history at their disposal.

    To do what Belichick has done in the modern NFL is just unsurpassed.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would likely put him No. 1
      finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
      own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
      won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

      SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
      RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
      C Stallings 2, Casali 1
      1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
      OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

      Comment


      • #4
        He's a cheater followed closely by Pete Carroll. Hard to put him first.
        "Looks like I picked a bad day to give up sniffing glue.
        - Steven McCrosky (Lloyd Bridges) in Airplane

        i have epiphanies like that all the time. for example i was watching a basketball game today and realized pom poms are like a pair of tits. there's 2 of them. they're round. they shake. women play with them. thus instead of having two, cheerleaders have four boobs.
        - nullnor, speaking on immigration law in AZ.

        Comment


        • #5
          Third most regular season coaching wins in NFL history.

          1. Don Shula 328-156-6
          2. George Halas 318-148-31
          3. Bill Belichick 261-123-0
          4. Tom Landry 250-162-6
          5. Curly Lambeau 226-132-22
          6. Paul Brown 213-104-9
          7. Marty Schottenheimer 200-126-1
          8. Andy Reid 195-124-1
          9. Chuck Noll 193-148-1
          10. Dan Reeves 190-165-2
          Last edited by madducks; 02-06-2019, 02:13 AM.
          “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”

          ― Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #6
            Tied for second most NFL championships won

            1. Paul Brown 7
            2. Bill Belichick 6
            2. George Halas 6
            2. Curly Lambeau 6
            5. Vince Lombardi 5
            6. Chuck Noll 4
            6. Guy Chamberlain 4
            8. Joe Gibbs 3
            8. Weeb Ewbank 3
            8. Bill Walsh 3
            “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”

            ― Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #7
              First in NFL playoff wins

              1. Bill Belichick 31-11
              2. Tom Landry 20-16
              3. Don Shula 19-17
              4. Joe Gibbs 17-7
              5. Chuck Noll 16-8
              6. Mike Holmgren 13-8
              7. Tom Coughlin 12-7
              8. Bill Cowher 12-9
              8. Andy Reid 12-14
              10. Bill Parcels 11-8
              10. Marv Levy 11-8
              10. Dan Reeves 11-9
              “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”

              ― Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by In the Corn View Post
                He's a cheater followed closely by Pete Carroll. Hard to put him first.
                I get so tried of the "cheater" tag. If he was such a cheater, then why haven't the owners come down HARD on the Pats? So the other owners just let the Pats cheat and win Super Bowls because the other owners don't care about winning Super Bowls??? It's all bullshit.

                Belichick is clearly #1.
                "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by revo View Post
                  I’m ruling out college, where certain schools have a major recruiting advantage.

                  Auerbach & Jackson had some of the greatest basketball players in history at their disposal.

                  To do what Belichick has done in the modern NFL is just unsurpassed.
                  Jackson was a master at managing egos. He made it look easy. I enjoyed him as the Bull's coach and missed him when he was gone. Hard for me to put him over Belichick. Belichick just seems to win no matter what. This last season was kind of amazing. I didn't think they had a chance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TS Garp View Post
                    I think we can agree that Belichick has surpassed Lombardi,
                    I'm still not sure about this one.

                    Lombardi 10 years, 5 titles, no losing seasons (Packers were 1-10-1 pre-Lombardi, 7-5 in year 1; hadn't had a winning season in 11 years prior to Lombardi; Redskins 5-9 pre-Lombardi, 7-5-2 in year 1; hadn't had a winning season in 13 seasons prior to Lombardi), winning % of .738.

                    Belichick 24 years, 6 titles, 5 losing seasons (Browns were 3-13 pre-Bill, 6-10 in year 1; had winning seasons 4 years in a row prior to the 3-13 year; Patriots 8-8 pre-Bill, 5-11 in year 1; had winning seasons 3 years in a row prior to the 8-8 year), winning % of .680. All 5 losing seasons were in his 1st six years of coaching, 18 straight years of winning seasons since then.

                    By the numbers I think Lombardi is a pretty clear winner. The only reason Bill is talked about being better is the vast difference in the game from the Lombardi era till now. It is tough to argue Lombardi is better than Bill but I still think there is an argument to be had.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dslaw View Post
                      I'm still not sure about this one.

                      Lombardi 10 years, 5 titles, no losing seasons (Packers were 1-10-1 pre-Lombardi, 7-5 in year 1; hadn't had a winning season in 11 years prior to Lombardi; Redskins 5-9 pre-Lombardi, 7-5-2 in year 1; hadn't had a winning season in 13 seasons prior to Lombardi), winning % of .738.

                      Belichick 24 years, 6 titles, 5 losing seasons (Browns were 3-13 pre-Bill, 6-10 in year 1; had winning seasons 4 years in a row prior to the 3-13 year; Patriots 8-8 pre-Bill, 5-11 in year 1; had winning seasons 3 years in a row prior to the 8-8 year), winning % of .680. All 5 losing seasons were in his 1st six years of coaching, 18 straight years of winning seasons since then.

                      By the numbers I think Lombardi is a pretty clear winner. The only reason Bill is talked about being better is the vast difference in the game from the Lombardi era till now. It is tough to argue Lombardi is better than Bill but I still think there is an argument to be had.
                      But could Lombardi handle today’s player and free agency?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        it's worth mentioning that there were only 14 teams during Lombardi's first 3 titles, not 32.

                        for the first two, his team leaped immediately into the championship game.
                        harder to win 3 playoff games than 1, for sure.

                        granted that this is like looking at Cindy Crawford and saying, "Wait, is that a mole?"
                        finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
                        own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
                        won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

                        SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
                        RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
                        C Stallings 2, Casali 1
                        1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
                        OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Judge Jude View Post
                          it's worth mentioning that there were only 14 teams during Lombardi's first 3 titles, not 32.

                          for the first two, his team leaped immediately into the championship game.
                          harder to win 3 playoff games than 1, for sure.

                          granted that this is like looking at Cindy Crawford and saying, "Wait, is that a mole?"
                          Nicely played.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hacko View Post
                            But could Lombardi handle today’s player and free agency?
                            I think this also goes to the "Who is better, Bonds or Ruth?". Would Ruth still drink beer & eat hot dogs like he did if he played today? Would Ruth handle the night games and travel today's players have? Would Ruth's head grow 2 sizes larger?

                            When I was young Unitas was proclaimed as the best QB in history. But many journeymen QBs in today's game have better stats than Johnny U does. This doesn't mean that Rich Gannon is better than Unitas. The game has changed so much you can't compare stats. That is why I say Lombardi has much better stats but it is still tough to say he is better than Bill. But I do think that if someone says Lombardi is better there is an argument to be had and each side could bring up items to support their case. It was a couple of years ago I had this discussion and I was on the Lombardi is 1A and Bill is 1B side. Since then Bill has a super bowl loss and a super bowl win. I think I lean to Bill being 1A and Lombardi 1B right now but can't say anyone putting Lombardi 1 is clearly wrong.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dslaw View Post
                              I think this also goes to the "Who is better, Bonds or Ruth?". Would Ruth still drink beer & eat hot dogs like he did if he played today? Would Ruth handle the night games and travel today's players have? Would Ruth's head grow 2 sizes larger?

                              When I was young Unitas was proclaimed as the best QB in history. But many journeymen QBs in today's game have better stats than Johnny U does. This doesn't mean that Rich Gannon is better than Unitas. The game has changed so much you can't compare stats. That is why I say Lombardi has much better stats but it is still tough to say he is better than Bill. But I do think that if someone says Lombardi is better there is an argument to be had and each side could bring up items to support their case. It was a couple of years ago I had this discussion and I was on the Lombardi is 1A and Bill is 1B side. Since then Bill has a super bowl loss and a super bowl win. I think I lean to Bill being 1A and Lombardi 1B right now but can't say anyone putting Lombardi 1 is clearly wrong.
                              Fair enough. It's impossible to know how successfully Lombardi would have adjusted to today's game and culture (if at all). That's what makes these comparisons so difficult -- is Wooden a better coach than Coach K? Would he have had the same number of championships when Kareem and Bill Walton inevitably left after one year? Impossible to know but fun to debate. I just think that Belichick's accomplishments at this point are so far and above, given the era, that he's almost transcended some of the questions (like the ones I just mentioned) that typically make these debates so difficult.

                              In a semi-related note, Joe Posnanski has a column in the Athletic about whether Babe Ruth would be a superstar in today's game. Again, impossible to answer but fun to speculate on.

                              Comment

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