Libertarianism and the balance between individual rights and anti-interventionism

[DMT]

I think the removal of the Taliban ultimately benefited the Afghan people, although I agree it's terribly hard to justify with any cost-benefit analysis given the costs of the ongoing conflict to American and Afghan lives. Our interventions in both Afghanistan and Iraq also did help the Kurdish people in both countries, despite the broader strategic and operational failures. That's why I put those two with question marks, but I can accept that the overall cost-to-benefit ratio is a tough sell, so when you reply, focus on the other ones I listed, lol.

Huh?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/11/01/middleeast/afghanistan-report-taliban-gains-control-intl/index.html

[B-Fly]

Huh?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ntl/index.html

For the broader purposes of this thread, Afghanistan is probably a terrible case study. So although one can argue that Taliban control over 12.5% of Afghan districts is a lot better than the near total control the mullahs had in 2001, I'll officially withdraw my half-hearted, mealy-mouthed inclusion of Afghanistan on the list of successful US military interventions.

[The Feral Slasher]

I'd probably divide this question into military interventions and non-military interventions. Successful US military interventions:

WWI
WWII
Korea
Kuwait
Haiti
Bosnia
Kosovo
Afghanistan? (debatable)
Kurdistan? (debatable)

But certainly none of those were "incredible failures in nearly every regard".

One could argue that WWII and Afghanistan don't count because they were only initiated following direct attacks on the US homeland, but I think the others count, no?

As for successful interventions in the form of diplomacy, foreign aid, or the prospect of military defense, etc, there are too many to count. The Marshall Plan, The Cold War and NATO ultimately helped lead to the greater freedom and quality of life in much of Europe, no? We also helped South Korea and Japan to become thriving democracies and economies. Our foreign aid and support has helped Colombia become much better for its people (and the world). We've had a lot of success mitigating health crises in Sub-Saharan Africa, including AIDS and malaria.

I think if we limit discussion to interventions this century we have a great record of failure: Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen...and you haven't listed any successes in the last 25 years or so. I don't really think WWI and WWII are particularly relevant to this discussion. Those are things you only do if you can't avoid them. Several of the other ones you list I don't think are so clear cut.

So I guess we more or less agree on foreign aid aspects, but I'm apparently a much tougher grader and have a strong recency bias. Amending my claim --Pretty much every military intervention in the 21st century has been a complete disaster while costing trillions of dollars.

[DMT]

John Mearsheimer's new book, The Great Delusion: Liberal Dreams and International Realities might be of interest.

[The Feral Slasher]

John Mearsheimer's new book, The Great Delusion: Liberal Dreams and International Realities might be of interest.

probably not much of interest is my guess.

[hacko]

Looks like Bill Weld is putting his toe in the 2020 GOP primary race.

[nots]

Looks like Bill Weld is putting his toe in the 2020 GOP primary race.

That would be awesome.
Edit: Just read his remarks from this morning’s announcement. He really went after Trump.

[baldgriff]

To bad he wont run as a Libertarian, but Im sure he left there with a bad taste after Johnson's inability to just talk sometimes.

[B-Fly]

To bad he wont run as a Libertarian, but Im sure he left there with a bad taste after Johnson's inability to just talk sometimes.

If he loses the GOP nomination, he presumably could still then run in the general election as a Libertarian, if the Libertarian Party offers him their nomination, no?

[baldgriff]

I would love to see him run as the Libertarian from the get go. Otherwise it just looks like an expedient way to stay in the race.

[B-Fly]

I would love to see him run as the Libertarian from the get go. Otherwise it just looks like an expedient way to stay in the race.

I like the idea of him debating and contesting Trump's re-nomination, setting forth clearly and in detail how anti-liberty Trump has been and how big a threat he is to liberty.

[baldgriff]

Liberty - the one pillar that it seems is most often forgotten by BOTH parties.

lib·er·ty
/ˈlibərdē/
noun
1.
the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.

[DMT]

Liberty - the one pillar that it seems is most often forgotten by BOTH parties.

lib·er·ty
/ˈlibərdē/
noun
1.
the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.

This country was founded on denying the liberty of Native Americans, African slaves, and women. Your incessant denial of our history and focus on a piece of paper is incredible.

[DMT]

How about the liberty of all the victims of the wars we've been fighting for the past 240 years?

[baldgriff]

This country was founded on denying the liberty of Native Americans, African slaves, and women. Your incessant denial of our history and focus on a piece of paper is incredible.

DMT -
I have not ever denied any of the things that you mentioned above. There is no incessant denial of what occurred. I honestly believe that those words can and should be applied to everyone in this country. We - all citizens of this country - should be able to partake in the Liberty that was one of the ideals of the Founding Fathers.

The more times we ask government to run our lives the less liberty we have.