Lee Smith & Harold Baines Elected to the HOF

[onejayhawk]

Most of the poor inductions have come from the Veterans committee. Baines is baffling.

J

[Sour Masher]

Highest career bWAR of eligible players not in the HOF, excluding the PEDs-associated players and banned players:

1 - Mike Mussina - 83.0
2 - Curt Schilling - 79.6
3 - Jim McCormick - 76.2
4 - Bill Dahlen - 75.4
5 - Lou Whitaker - 75.1
6 - Bobby Grich - 71.1
7 - Scott Rolen - 70.2 (why hasnt he gotten more support?)
8 - Rick Reuschel - 69.7 (surprising!)
9 - Edgar Martinez - 68.4
10 - Kenny Lofton - 68.3 (I believe he fell off after the 1st ballot)
11 (tie) - Kevin Brown - 68.0
11 (tie) - Graig Nettles - 68.0
13 - Dwight Evans - 67.1 (vastly underrated player)
14 - Luis Tiant - 66.5
15 - Buddy Bell - 66.3

BAines' is 38.7 and Smith's is 29.4. No, I dont think I would have voted for either one.

BTW, the lowest career bWAR I could find for any HOFer was Bruce Sutter's 24.6. Rollie Fingers' was only 25.1 and Trevor Hoffman's was 28.1 (WAR is not kind to closers). Another low one was Ray Schalk's 28.6. He was the catcher on the 1919 BlackSox. You may remember his character from "Eight Men Out" ("What's this, Williams? What's this?"). Had lifetime BA of .253 but he is credited w revolutionizing the catcher position defensively.

Schilling, Mussina, Whitaker and Rolen are all HOFers to me. Rolen was one of the best defensive 3bman I've ever seen, and a heck of a hitter too.

[Gregg]

if I gave you 20 minutes on why Lee Smith doesn't belong, I think I can persuade you. But I least I need some time to do so)

Ok. I am all ears.

478 saves the most in baseball until Hoffman passed him in 2006. He should have been in a long time ago.

[chancellor]

Ok. I am all ears.

478 saves the most in baseball until Hoffman passed him in 2006. He should have been in a long time ago.

Ugh. I couldn't disagree more. IMO, his career defines decent longevity while being very good to good for a while, with a couple of very good peak years. His K rate is under 1/inning, his BB rate over 3.3/9 IP, had an ERA+ over 180 two years, had an ERA+ under 140 more years than I can count with my limited morning caffeine intake, and had a WHIP under 1.10 one time in his career. He had one amazing year in 1983, being both dominant and durable, and successfully built a reputation from that year - to his credit - that followed him through his career. But in reality, other than a very good peak at age 32-33, his closer stats were decidedly....well, pretty good. But hardly great. And nowhere near Hall-worthy.

[Ken]

Just to clarify how odd the Harold Baines election is, I did a very quick comparison between Baines and Edger Martinez.

In his 22 year career, Baines' best season by fWAR was 4.3 in 1984 at age 25. In Edgar Martinez's TENTH best season, at age 38, he put up 4.8 fWAR. And Edgar was not considered good enough to be a HOFer every single year for the last 9 years of voting.

[umjewman]

Ugh. I couldn't disagree more. IMO, his career defines decent longevity while being very good to good for a while, with a couple of very good peak years. His K rate is under 1/inning, his BB rate over 3.3/9 IP, had an ERA+ over 180 two years, had an ERA+ under 140 more years than I can count with my limited morning caffeine intake, and had a WHIP under 1.10 one time in his career. He had one amazing year in 1983, being both dominant and durable, and successfully built a reputation from that year - to his credit - that followed him through his career. But in reality, other than a very good peak at age 32-33, his closer stats were decidedly....well, pretty good. But hardly great. And nowhere near Hall-worthy.

My argument for Lee Smith would be that if Harold Baines can get in, Lee Smith belongs.

[DMT]

My argument for Lee Smith would be that if Harold Baines can get in, Lee Smith belongs.

Same argument can now be made for about 100 other players.

[Gregg]

Here is a great article on Smith for the Hall from 2009:

https://www.billjamesonline.com/article1255/

[Friarfan]

Goddamn joke

[chancellor]

Here is a great article on Smith for the Hall from 2009:

https://www.billjamesonline.com/article1255/

Which, frankly, reinforces many of the issues I have with Smith. Of course, I didn't think Sutter should get in, either. Fingers was marginal, but had the awesomest mustache in the modern era and a truly transcendent year his first year in Milwaukee - an ERA+ of 333(!), paired up with a Cy and a MVP. To use a reference Bob Kohm did many years back, it's the Hall of Fame - and what Fingers did in '81 was enough to move him from the very good to the famous.

[Gregg]

Which, frankly, reinforces many of the issues I have with Smith. Of course, I didn't think Sutter should get in, either. Fingers was marginal, but had the awesomest mustache in the modern era and a truly transcendent year his first year in Milwaukee - an ERA+ of 333(!), paired up with a Cy and a MVP. To use a reference Bob Kohm did many years back, it's the Hall of Fame - and what Fingers did in '81 was enough to move him from the very good to the famous.

That Fingers year was amazing. I was traveling back and fourth from Cleveland to Cedarburg Wis. during that time. A lot of fun.

Back to closers. As long as saves are a thing the historical and best need to be recognized.

[revo]

Ryan Thibidoux tracks HOF ballots made public through the interwebs, and with a month left to go, he has 24% of ballots counted with four potential new HOFers. Mariano Rivera may be the first ever unanimous HOFer. Seems a little like when ESPN pundits would spoil draft picks with a minute to go, but anyways, here it is:

Mariano Rivera: named on 100% of ballots
Roy Halladay: 94%
Edgar Martinez: 91%
Mike Mussina: 84%


Malcontents Clemens, Schilling & Bonds are all creeping up to >70%.

[revo]

With 31% of the vote known, Clemens has now reached the 75% needed for induction.

[onejayhawk]

With 31% of the vote known, Clemens has now reached the 75% needed for induction.

It's about freaking time.

J

[Judge Jude]

With 31% of the vote known, Clemens has now reached the 75% needed for induction.

spoiler alerts:
the Clemens types tend to fade late.
there are now 3 locks and maybe a 4th.

Jeter may coast in next year with former teammate Clemens (and Bonds?). that would be amusing.