Lee Smith & Harold Baines Elected to the HOF

[revo]

by the “Today’s Era” Committee.

Smith, I can understand.

Baines? He was on the Writer’s ballot for 6 years before he dropped off, and his vote % high was 6%. All five years before he dropped he was between 5%-6%. That’s kind of ridiculous.

[DMT]

Yea, Baines is silly IMO.

[rhd]

by the “Today’s Era” Committee.

Smith, I can understand.

Baines? He was on the Writer’s ballot for 6 years before he dropped off, and his vote % high was 6%. All five years before he dropped he was between 5%-6%. That’s kind of ridiculous.

Both former Orioles!

Not sure I would have voted in either one. But Baines' induction should make it easier for Edgar to finally get in, since both spent much of their careers at DH.

[madducks]

Edgar Martinez should have been voted in instead of Harold Baines. Lee Smith should have gone in years ago.

[cavebird]

I agree Edgar should be in, and I think Smith deserved it, but Baines in is just making it a hall of guys who were good but not great and did it for a long time.

[Sour Masher]

Yeah, Baines just lowers the bar for the hall. That is nuts. Edgar was a much better hitter with a career WAR 30 pts higher and he isn't in.

Arguably the worst addition to the hall since Bill Mazeroski, and maybe worse, since Mazeroski was at least an elite defender, and also the best 2bman in Pirates history (but would that fact alone been enough to get him in, if he didn't also hit the only walk off game 7 hr in World Series history? His numbers were horrid by today's standards .667 OPS, and OBP below .300, and only 27 steals in 17 years).

[Judge Jude]

Mazeroski even by modern stats seems like the best defensive 2B in MLB history, which was his reputation. still a questionable choice, but it's something.

if I gave you 20 minutes on why Lee Smith doesn't belong, I think I can persuade you. But I least I need some time to do so.

Harold Baines?

Eric Fisher
Verified account @EricFisherSBJ
12m12 minutes ago

Eric Fisher Retweeted Bob Nightengale

Reinsdorf, who loves Baines, is on the HOF Board of Directors. So, too, is Reinsdorf’s close friend Paul Beeston, who also was a voter in the Today’s Game Committee.

.........

here's a best to worst OPS+s, in full seasons

Baines 144 143 143 142 137 136 132 130 120 118 116 114 113 112 111 109 108 087
Staub 166 153 148 139 137 137 132 132 119 118 117 116 112 108 084

(Baines was barely short of AVG title qualifying in 137, 136, and 130 seasons. Staub barely qualified in 119 season.)

Staub career 124 OPS+ in 11,129 PA
Baines career 121 OPS+ in 11,092 PA

then adjust for defense and baserunning, of course

...............

(another long career guy is Vada Pinson, an elite CF in his 20s who is well more qualified than Baines)

[revo]

And Staub also lasted a short time on the ballot (7 years), with a high of 7.9%. Ridiculous.

[Sour Masher]

Really, the politics involved just devalue the HOF as the standard by which we judge the great from the good. That and the fact that the steroid era means many of the greatest players of all time aren't in it muddies the waters further. I mean, I'm not arguing against the notion that Barry Bonds was one big raging ball of steroids, and a big fat headed cheater, but steroids or no, he was 10 times the player Baines was.

When I was a kid, the HOF label was like a special brand to let me know the best of the best. For whatever reasons, good or bad, between some questionable additions, and some unfortunate omissions, it just isn't the cases anymore. You can build a team of retired non-HOFers that would just crush a team of lower end HOFers. Throw Bonds and Clemens, and all the roiders, along with a a few unfair omissions like Edgar, up against Baines and the other questionable additions, and it wouldn't be a close which is the better team. A shame that is the way things have turned out.

Edit: I guess it never was, since the league was segregated for so long. My kid brain just had a false sense of what the HOF actually was/is vs reality.

[hacko]

When you put someone like Baines in but leave Rose,Bonds , Clemons , Joe Jackson out .........

[Judge Jude]

When you put someone like Baines in but leave Rose,Bonds , Clemons , Joe Jackson out .........

that's debatable - but it's definitely not the worst offense here.

leaving out Dahlen, Grich, Whitaker - just to name easily a few far qualified middle infielders - while electing Baines is the clearer travesty, as they were far better players and without controversy.

[rhd]

Highest career bWAR of eligible players not in the HOF, excluding the PEDs-associated players and banned players:

1 - Mike Mussina - 83.0
2 - Curt Schilling - 79.6
3 - Jim McCormick - 76.2
4 - Bill Dahlen - 75.4
5 - Lou Whitaker - 75.1
6 - Larry Walker - 72.7 (added after edit)
7 - Bobby Grich - 71.1
8 - Scott Rolen - 70.2 (why hasnt he gotten more support?)
9 - Rick Reuschel - 69.7 (surprising!)
10 - Edgar Martinez - 68.4
11 - Kenny Lofton - 68.3 (I believe he fell off after the 1st ballot)
12 (tie) - Kevin Brown - 68.0
12 (tie) - Graig Nettles - 68.0
14 - Dwight Evans - 67.1 (vastly underrated player)
15 - Luis Tiant - 66.5
16 - Buddy Bell - 66.3

BAines' is 38.7 and Smith's is 29.4. No, I dont think I would have voted for either one.

BTW, the lowest career bWAR I could find for any HOFer was Bruce Sutter's 24.6. Rollie Fingers' was only 25.1 and Trevor Hoffman's was 28.1 (WAR is not kind to closers). Another low one was Ray Schalk's 28.6. He was the catcher on the 1919 BlackSox. You may remember his character from "Eight Men Out" ("What's this, Williams? What's this?"). Had lifetime BA of .253 but he is credited w revolutionizing the catcher position defensively.

[chancellor]

Dang, they found not one but TWO players worse than Kirby Puckett to put in the Hall. It’s an accomplishment. Not a good one, but an accomplishment nonetheless.

[revo]

that's debatable - but it's definitely not the worst offense here.

leaving out Dahlen, Grich, Whitaker - just to name easily a few far qualified middle infielders - while electing Baines is the clearer travesty, as they were far better players and without controversy.

It's possible they get in, especially based off of this vote. This committee only examined players who made a "meaningful contribution" after 1988.

[Judge Jude]

I'm aware of that fact, but it remains a travesty. they shouldn't have elected anyone off this ballot - or even had this ballot