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Dude, all politicians lie, it's hilarious to me that you use that as a deal-breaker.
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If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige -
We don't. And I don't think she did, actually. Just as with her heritage issue, I don't think she is the type that outright lies, but is able to justify oversimplifying or overstating. It is not like she claimed to be half black. She claimed NA heritage based on everyone in her family saying she did. She did use that to her advantage and overplayed it. That is what I think likely happened here. I think Bernie said something about women and electability. I do not think it was "a woman cannot get elected," as has been suggested, but something that gave Warren that impression or sense. So, for me, I do not accuse her of lying. My sense of both people leads me to believe neither would outright lie, so a truth in the middle is likely. It isn't a big deal either way, though, really. He did not say a woman should not win, even if you believe Warren. He said a woman could not win, which is an opinion of the American people, not a moral judgment worthy of massive condemnation.Originally posted by TS Garp View Post
But what we do know is that she had that convo in her pocket (and, again, I think the convo happened), and just like her heritage, she was more than willing to use it to advance herself. In this case, it meant revealing something about a private convo she and Bernie had that she knew would put him in a negative light. That isn't something friends do to each other, but as DMT said, it is something almost every politician would do. Warren has shown herself to be just another politician, but I still think not a great one, because I don't think this move, which hurts her with Bernie supporters, will help her enough to win. So all this did was hurt Bernie, which was a dumb political move, even if you don't think it was a super egregious moral issue, which I don't. Ratting out a friend to get ahead is not enough to make me say, I will never support a politician like it is for GITH. It makes me like her less, though, and makes me question her political acumen. Also, I certainly would be careful about what I said to her in confidence.Comment
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Because someone is lying about this and Warren has already lied, Bernie hasn't.Originally posted by TS Garp View Post
And no, not every politician liesIf I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.Comment
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I'm not trying to bait you, but you don't think Bernie has ever said things that weren't true? I only ask about both things because your reaction to her statement is so strong and it just seems like an extreme position given that none of us actually know what happened.Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View PostComment
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There are other options, including Bernie forgot (he is 78), or the scenario I outlined above. I'm sure this has happened to you. It happens to me ALL the time. I say something that gets taken a different way by someone else. Happens every day. But what we do know is Warren held it and released that info now. That is what we know and that is shady on its own. But that isn't enough to make her some super villian, as bad as Trump or something.Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View PostComment
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To what SM posted. I believe it's every person's responsibility to make sure that what you say is accurate, that intent is established before repeating something someone else has said. That goes double for anyone in the public purview.
I equate what she did with lying.If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.Comment
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Exactly. I think the "they are both telling the truth" scenario that you and others have mentioned is plausible as is the fact that he forgot. You can absolutely take issue with the way Warren weaponized it although I do think the role of gender and privilege in this conversation is very relevant and also highly difficult for those of us on this board to comprehend and process. I think it would be presumptuous for me to try to assume I know/understand the way gender dynamics and politics are at play and how they've affected Warren's views and approach.Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostComment
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No one is as bad as TrumpIf I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.Comment
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We are in complete agreement which is why when it's time, we have to put our differences aside and rally behind whoever the democratic nominee (i.e. his most viable opponent) turns out to be, whether that person was our first choice or not.Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View PostComment
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I think the most likely thing is misunderstanding or misperception or something like that. But I think bringing it up wasn't very helpful, but in the big scheme of things hopefully won't make a difference.Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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half trueOriginally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
outdated and deceptive?
But technically possible is not the same as practically feasible
Sen. Bernie Sanders continues to make the misleading claim
Sen. Bernie Sanders repeated two claims on health care. He said that “500,000 people” are “going bankrupt” due to cancer, but the study he cites only says that medical issues contributed to those bankruptcies — they were not the sole reason. He also said that “87 million Americans are uninsured or underinsured.” The figure includes 19.3 million who were insured but had a gap in coverage in the previous year.
Sen. Bernie Sanders claimed “the average American” isn’t making any more money than 45 years ago. In fact, median family income has gone up 29% during that time.
Sanders repeated a claim that exaggerates the cost of health care in the U.S. compared with other countries. “We are spending twice as much per capita on health care as the Canadians or any other major country on earth,” he said. That’s true of Canada, but not of all other countries.
Sanders claimed the United States has “the highest child poverty rate of almost any country on earth.” The U.S. has a high “relative poverty” rate among certain countries.
Sanders repeated an old, misleading claim that 83% of the benefits from the Republican tax law go to the top 1% of income earners. That won’t be true until 2027, when most of the individual income tax changes expire unless Congress extends them.
Sanders repeated an erroneous claim from his 2016 presidential campaign that the U.S. has the “highest rate of childhood poverty.” While the country does have a high relative child poverty rate, several other countries have worse rates.
this is tediousI'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...Comment
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Dayum, heyelander bring facts into this and stuff.Comment
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tired of GITH lying to us.Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostI'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...Comment
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I like Bernie and think he has a lot of integrity, but your post is a good reminder that he isn't perfect--no one is. It isn't even possible to be. Lots of people lie and don't even intend to or think they are. I agree we need to remind ourselves of this as we nitpick each of these candidates. The big picture is they all have more integrity and better policies than the person currently in office.Originally posted by heyelander View PostComment
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Originally posted by heyelander View Posthalf true
outdated and deceptive?
But technically possible is not the same as practically feasible
Sen. Bernie Sanders continues to make the misleading claim
Sen. Bernie Sanders repeated two claims on health care. He said that “500,000 people” are “going bankrupt” due to cancer, but the study he cites only says that medical issues contributed to those bankruptcies — they were not the sole reason. He also said that “87 million Americans are uninsured or underinsured.” The figure includes 19.3 million who were insured but had a gap in coverage in the previous year.
Sen. Bernie Sanders claimed “the average American” isn’t making any more money than 45 years ago. In fact, median family income has gone up 29% during that time.
Sanders repeated a claim that exaggerates the cost of health care in the U.S. compared with other countries. “We are spending twice as much per capita on health care as the Canadians or any other major country on earth,” he said. That’s true of Canada, but not of all other countries.
Sanders claimed the United States has “the highest child poverty rate of almost any country on earth.” The U.S. has a high “relative poverty” rate among certain countries.
Sanders repeated an old, misleading claim that 83% of the benefits from the Republican tax law go to the top 1% of income earners. That won’t be true until 2027, when most of the individual income tax changes expire unless Congress extends them.
Sanders repeated an erroneous claim from his 2016 presidential campaign that the U.S. has the “highest rate of childhood poverty.” While the country does have a high relative child poverty rate, several other countries have worse rates.
this is tedious
Thanks for the links--Sanders either misspoke are as you said--used old info, in almost every stated example--once he was notified of his error, he corrected it.
There are also quite a few of these that are3 flatly arguing semantics.
NONE were intentional falsehoods.
I believe Warrens attack on Sanders is intentional use of misleading or incorrect information.
THAT is lying.
Heylander please don't call me a liar again. Even in Jest. Thank you.
Coolio, you guys think whatever you'd like.
Some of you had no issue with HRC so I shouldn't be surprised--I did, so this shouldn't
surprise you either.
Here's one for you all--Find ONE confirmed example of Sanders intentionally lying and I'll withdraw my support for him as well.If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.Comment
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