Election 2020

[Sour Masher]

Can you imagine having a camera following you 24/7? Everyone is going to have slip-ups. Focusing on each one of Biden's as if it's the final proof that he is mentally incompetent is just idiotic.

Trump can't read FFS and we're worried about Biden's mental state?

Sure, of course everyone is going to have slip ups. And I am probably overstating it when I say he is "normal" 95% of the time. Maybe it is 98%. But he has more slip ups than the other candidates, and some of the slip ups indicate to me mental decline. Hell, I think I have a small amount of mental decline myself at age 43. I have more experience and wisdom, but my memory is worse. It is a reality of aging, and some people have more of it as they age than others. It seems pretty clear to me Biden has it to a degree that it should be worrisome. If you want to call some of these slip ups purposeful lies rather than complete mis-remembrances, that should be equally concerning. I think many of them show mental lapses, which is not abnormal for a man of his age. Biden, Sanders, Bloomberg are old as fuck. Most men die before they get to be as old as them. Almost everyone still living is retired at their age, not dealing with the daily non-stop stresses of running the most powerful country on the planet. I don't want to go all Logan's Run here, but damn. These dudes are old. Their wisdom and experiences are great, but a four year commitment to be the figure head of the country on the daily rather than a trusted adviser is scary to me. They are all basically a coin flip to make it to the end of their first term!

That said, comparing Biden to Trump isn't really fair. Trump has always been at the bottom 5% of all humans in communicating clearly and coherently. He should never have become president. The bar is pretty low if Trump is your bar. Biden at 50% capacity would be more consistently clear and coherent than Trump. I'd vote for Biden if Biden couldn't remember his own name over Trump.

[Sour Masher]

If I bet that one or more of Biden, Sanders, and Bloomberg dies by Jan 1 2025, would any of you be confident betting against it?

[In the Corn]

Sure, of course everyone is going to have slip ups. And I am probably overstating it when I say he is "normal" 95% of the time. Maybe it is 98%. But he has more slip ups than the other candidates, and some of the slip ups indicate to me mental decline. Hell, I think I have a small amount of mental decline myself at age 43. I have more experience and wisdom, but my memory is worse. It is a reality of aging, and some people have more of it as they age than others. It seems pretty clear to me Biden has it to a degree that it should be worrisome. If you want to call some of these slip ups purposeful lies rather than complete mis-remembrances, that should be equally concerning. I think many of them show mental lapses, which is not abnormal for a man of his age. Biden, Sanders, Bloomberg are old as fuck. Most men die before they get to be as old as them. Almost everyone still living is retired at their age, not dealing with the daily non-stop stresses of running the most powerful country on the planet. I don't want to go all Logan's Run here, but damn. These dudes are old. Their wisdom and experiences are great, but a four year commitment to be the figure head of the country on the daily rather than a trusted adviser is scary to me. They are all basically a coin flip to make it to the end of their first term!

That said, comparing Biden to Trump isn't really fair. Trump has always been at the bottom 5% of all humans in communicating clearly and coherently. He should never have become president. The bar is pretty low if Trump is your bar. Biden at 50% capacity would be more consistently clear and coherent than Trump. I'd vote for Biden if Biden couldn't remember his own name over Trump.

While I do think that Biden has some memory issues, I also think he has some ADD and that causes his mind to be working faster than his mouth.

[Sour Masher]

While I do think that Biden has some memory issues, I also think he has some ADD and that causes his mind to be working faster than his mouth.

Sure, and he overcame a stutter earlier in life that is part of it. It does not explain the significant memory errors getting events, dates, people wrong. Unless you think they are lies, and that is worse, I think.

[Kevin Seitzer]

If I bet that one or more of Biden, Sanders, and Bloomberg dies by Jan 1 2025, would any of you be confident betting against it?

I'd guess there's a 40% chance one of them dies in the next 5 years. That's from looking at actuarial tables and assuming each of them has half the chance of dying of a typical American male their age based on their access to good health care and the fact that they are currently in relatively good health (despite some heart issues), which gives them each about a 15% chance of dying in the next 5 years.

[In the Corn]

Sure, and he overcame a stutter earlier in life that is part of it. It does not explain the significant memory errors getting events, dates, people wrong. Unless you think they are lies, and that is worse, I think.

I don't have a huge issue with the those things. I think Joe has done a lot in his career and those get confused for him, especially under the microscope of a 90 second debate format.

[Teenwolf]

So you've all admitted that Biden was grossly preoccupied with the shot clock throughout the entire debate, including cutting himself short, saying its maybe due to Biden's ADD... so the entire debate he was preoccupied, he lied that Obama had never given praise to Castro (standard Biden tactic), the first half he was unnecessarily angrily shouting all of his answers (David Axelrod thought so), and his biggest attack on Sanders regarding gun control got him almost all the way there... until he claimed 150 MILLION US citizens were killed by guns since 2007. Surely Trump would let that line go...

Okay sure, he had a great debate...

Now that its settled, he had a spectacular debate performance, how about the fucking quote that I have to post for the 3rd fucking time? Will it be ignored again? I'll bold it this time so you can't miss it.

"My name's Joe Biden and I'm a Democratic candidate for the United States Senate. Look me over, if you like what you see, help out. If you don't, vote for the other Biden."

You think he seems coherent? Running for Senate? The other Biden? (By the way, I wish there was another Biden to tag in for this fuckin' shmuck) Or naming Deng Xiaoping working on the Paris climate accord when Xiapoing has been dead 23 years... all within the same week he claimed to have been arrested in South Africa. Really?

I'm interested to know, if you guys don't think he's mentally declining, then all of his falsehoods must be intentional lies, right? I'm willing to admit that many of his falsehoods are likely unintentional, dementia/senility based. It's the rest of you who think he's a lying MF. Funny when you think about it that way.

[Sour Masher]

I don't have a huge issue with the those things. I think Joe has done a lot in his career and those get confused for him, especially under the microscope of a 90 second debate format.

I guess we see it differently. I don't wanna list all of the things that give me legit concerns. TW has done a good job with that. I have said before, I like Biden as a person. I think he is a good dude. But I think ignoring the growing list of flubs potentially ignore real underlying issues. The line TW reposted just above is an example of that.

ETA: But I'm not here wishing ill on the guy or trying to trash him. I wish him well and hope for the best for him. But he isn't my choice for president for some other reasons and also for my concerns about his mental decline.

[Sour Masher]

I'd guess there's a 40% chance one of them dies in the next 5 years. That's from looking at actuarial tables and assuming each of them has half the chance of dying of a typical American male their age based on their access to good health care and the fact that they are currently in relatively good health (despite some heart issues), which gives them each about a 15% chance of dying in the next 5 years.

Those numbers make me feel a bit better. I couldn't find 5 year out numbers, so I was going by if you are over 65, what are you chances of making it to 85 if you are a male. Those are much longer odds, but I know none of these guys will be quite 85 in 5 years, and making it to 75 I'm sure gives you better odds of making it t 85.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I guess we see it differently. I don't wanna list all of the things that give me legit concerns. TW has done a good job with that. I have said before, I like Biden as a person. I think he is a good dude. But I think ignoring the growing list of flubs potentially ignore real underlying issues. The line TW reposted just above is an example of that.

ETA: But I'm not here wishing ill on the guy or trying to trash him. I wish him well and hope for the best for him. But he isn't my choice for president for some other reasons and also for my concerns about his mental decline.

I think if you listen to too much TW here, it skews your reality. For example, stating it as senility versus lying is a false dichotomy. My mom had those "senior moments" when she was in her 40s and 50s and worried it was a sign of pending dementia (because her mother had dementia in old age). She's 84 now and still going strong. Some people get things mixed up occasionally when they're speaking, and it's not a sign of either mental/physical problems or dishonesty.

[gcstomp]

Between Biden, Sanders, Bernie, and Trump, at their ages of 77, 79, 78, and 74 for Trump I would place an even money bet one of them will expire in next 4 years. These are old dudes. All showing age in substantial decline, with Trump showing most imo. But that is standard and well within the bell curve of average as they all are well past retirement age and shouldnt be held in charge of anything more important that picking out the snacks for movie night, and even then grandma should get veto power. As far as the Biden quote from 2 days ago that looks bad, you can match 2 Trump quotes that are as bad and never run out if you wanted to play that game as there are hundreds to pull from.

The repeating that 1 terribly butchered quote 4 times, you think what, it wasnt read by board, or you simply demand a response that matches your sense of it. You think it wasnt merely a bad senior moment, a misstep that your pop pop does when telling stories of his 1st car, but an ah ha he is raving mad and should be disqualified, again you could pull up 2 of those for Trump for every Biden quote that displays decline.

Why? Because these are really old guys. An old guy who had a bad stutter, Biden throws out thoughts faster than his mouth nails them down smoothly.

The Bernie message is so simplistic, and he has been so on it for so long, it would be hard to mess that up too bad. He wont mess up names of world figures and of bills passed because he doesnt have nearly the resume of success of Biden so there are about 90% less data points to mess up. We constantly point out the decline of Biden, but when we point out he had his best debate performance, a low bar to clear as he hasnt done well until now, its not anything imo but too little too late. I cant see Biden getting to 1990 delegates.

My preference is Klobuchar, Biden, Pete, then Warren, Bernie, and Bloomberg in that order. We greatly need 1 of them to defeat the fascist Trump, but be real, if Bernie wins, there is zero chance he could get anything thru the Mcconnell (age 78, wont some of these evil fcks retire) senate.

[Teenwolf]

Traditionally, losing your home state in a primary is seen as a very bad thing. Combine this info with Klobuchar and Warren both set to finish a distant 4th and 5th in some order in SC behind Biden/Sanders/Steyer, both are nearly broke, each have their home states running on super Tuesday, and it makes you think... seems like Warren is more likely to lose her home state than Klobuchar (based on polling, not my clear bias favoring Klobuchar), but both will have a lot of pressure to get out of the race depending on how their internal polling projects them to do in their home state.

Warren seems to hold a genuine grudge with Sanders, inconceivably snubbing Bernie for a handshake at the end of last night's debate. So they both seem likely to stay through super Tuesday to me, figuring if they lose, they'll still get enough delegates for some leverage at a brokered convention, but I'm not entirely sure how much weight a home state loss in the primary carries, so it's hard to predict. So I don't understand Warren's issue, and it also seems like a terrible political instinct to continue this feud, unlikely to win her a juicy Sanders admin slot. At the same time, she has always played political games, and seems to think she will have some leverage down the line, so maybe she knows more about the situation than I do. But I doubt it.

[nullnor]

i thought Bloomberg's biggest accomplishment while in office was banning soda pop? if people are anti-soda and don't think they can choose the right size of their carbonated refreshments, Bloomberg would be the best candidate...does Trump have a nickname for Mike yet? i nominate soda pop.

[Teenwolf]

Show her this clip of Morning Joe. They have their frequent guest, former Comms. Director for Hillary '16 trashing Bernie, they're hammering away at the Bernie Bros bullshit, praising Bloomberg's ad about the horrible awful Bros, even though Bernie's support is largely women and POC.

Listen, even if anybody here believes that my anger was representative of a certain segment of his supporters, would anyone be shallow enough to vote for Bloomberg or someone else based on that as a primary motivator? I think it seems unlikely to work. People are going to enjoy watching him eviscerate Bloomberg, and it won't be for bloodlust, it will be legit criticism. Bloomberg has like 60 sexual harassment claims against him settled by NDA's. The time he told a 7 month pregnant staffer to "kill it", then whined about the number of women working for him taking maternity leaves is well documented, among other insanely damaging comments. He's a total scumbag. I don't think the DNC should have accepted his money, and I hope Bernie wins and tells him to take his money and shove it.

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/wa...ad-78880837628

Yesterday it came out that Sanders claimed he didn't think he would need Bloomberg's money because he's set to raise $1 Bn in small donations. Bernie staffer Jeff Weaver used stronger language in categorically denying they would accept Bloomberg funds. Absolutely the right move.

Of course, the media are upset about Bernie not taking the money, claiming that he should take all the help that he can get, not mentioning that Hillary had a $Bn more than Trump and still lost.

The real question becomes, what happens when Bloomberg has no shot at the nomination, but still dumps half a $Bn into negative Bernie ads... has he really helped the party? He's only around to fund the DNC through crap like $1K-$3K debate tickets.

Do folks think it helps Sanders more to reject the funds or accept them?

[B-Fly]

i thought Bloomberg's biggest accomplishment while in office was banning soda pop? if people are anti-soda and don't think they can choose the right size of their carbonated refreshments, Bloomberg would be the best candidate...does Trump have a nickname for Mike yet? i nominate soda pop.

Actually he never "accomplished" that one, despite advocating for it.