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Thread: Election 2020

  1. #4421
    Journeyman Teenwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMT View Post
    Why isn't Sanders releasing his medical records? How is that getting a pass?

    How about the polls showing that "being a socialist" rates as one of least appealing aspects of a candidate?
    This from Shaun King:

    "Bernie’s medical records. They were released 51 days ago. 99% of the people demanding them TODAY never read them when they were released and won’t read them now. They did the same thing with Bernie’s tax returns. In the meantime, Bloomberg has released NOTHING."

    Did you read the three doctors letters with details on his heart health or are you just echoing media bullshit? Read the letters and tell me why you think he should release more details than the other candidates.

    I can't embed the tweet that includes the letters, but they're easy to find.

    The "socialism stinks" argument doesn't warrant a response. It's silly corporate fear-mongering. Biden voters 2nd choice is strongly for Bernie. The label thing is way overblown.

  2. #4422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teenwolf View Post
    Building a case of evidence that supports my premise isn't "confirming my bias", its confirming the truth! They are all terrible candidates who would get crushed by Trump, and they are almost all serial liars in their pursuits.

    I went back and saw that 2 years ago, I was open to Kirsten Gillibrand becoming the party's nominee, so saying I've been completely closed off to outside candidates is untrue.

    Also, I've come to the conclusion that there are only 2 consistently honest candidates. Bernie Sanders... and Amy Klobuchar. Now, I shit all over Klobuchar. I think she has negative charisma, and hate her policies. But she's been honest and upfront about her plans. Can't say that about any of the rest.

    So to sum up, I believe I have higher standards than most voters who expect dishonesty from their politicians, but I don't believe I've been unfairly critical. Quite the opposite.
    You focus on the critical stuff--the flaws--of the other candidates. Yes, they all have them. But the articles you read that point them out, do they ever point out the victories, the triumphs, or any of the good works, deeds, words, or actions of any of these candidates? Do you really believe none of them have ever helped pass a good piece of legislation, have never helped people in need, or made a good vote in their lives? Hell, to hear you tell it, they slam door's in the faces of the elderly, steal seats from pregnant women on the subway, and kick stray dogs on their way to work each day. I'm not saying to stop pointing out the flaws, but I hope you do realize that is not the totality of these candidates, or any individual. All of these flawed candidates have good works on the resume, but all that gets focused on is the negative, which just dampens the enthusiasm we should all muster to support whoever the nominee ends up being (and it is looking like it will be Sanders).

    I just hope the switch gets flipped and the negativity starts to turn to positivity and a focus on what the nominee brings to the table when it comes time to stand against Trump. I fear there will still be some fractures, bad blood, and negative feelings that might dampen support for the last one standing.
    Last edited by Sour Masher; 02-23-2020 at 05:12 PM.

  3. #4423
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    If you take anyone's life, politician or not, and list and define that person by the three or four worst things they have ever said or done, intentional or not, you can make saints look like monsters. What I meant by confirming your bias, or anyone about anything, is when you do this, only focusing on the worst cases prosecuted (thinking Klobuchar here), the worst things said, etc, you are doing it because you already want the outcome you reach. Someone else could only focus on the positives and ignore the negatives and they would be doing the same thing.

    And again, I get why folks focus on the negatives--we need to differentiate these candidates, just like looking at a bunch of strong resumes to pick the best person for the job. But if you really think every candidate but Sanders is a piece of crap (except for right now Klobuchar), then I think your focus on just the negative has clouded you to the totality of most of these candidates (I don't think you are super far off on Bloomberg, and even he has a lot of good on his resume).

  4. #4424
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    I think Buttigieg is a completely unqualified candidate with a terrible record. Klobuchar has said the same. His only record is from a tiny town, where his record of supporting racist cops and gentrifying the most affordable neighborhoods to dislocate poor people are hugely problematic, in my mind disqualifying. It came out a few days ago that Buttigieg did indeed have talks with his donors who were used as a pressure point to get him to fire the black police chief. But I don't bring these things up anymore because I'm sick of being called biased and whatever. It's ludicrous that you defend someone like him. Or someone with the record of Biden, lying constantly about huge issues in his record. These are 2 awful candidates. Then you're left with Warren, who is a phony soothsayer, blowing with the political winds. She stands for nothing and it's been laid bare to see. These aren't conclusions based on any preconceived favouritism on my part. If you are fine with the limitations that we've seen, that's fine by me. We can disagree. But I'm not motivated to support a 78 year old because of some cultist mentality. If some other progressive modeled after Sanders came along, maybe if AOC showed better political instincts, or someone like her, I'd support them in a heartbeat. It's not about a cult of personality, it's the ideas he stands for.

  5. #4425
    Yep, calling Warren a "phony soothsayer" despite her record of actually getting shit done in Congress isn't "preconceived favoritism". It's just astute political analysis.

    I'm thrilled to see Bernie doing well but that doesn't make you (and a much too large percentage of his supporters) any less of an asshole.
    If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
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    How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

  6. #4426
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMT View Post
    Yep, calling Warren a "phony soothsayer" despite her record of actually getting shit done in Congress isn't "preconceived favoritism". It's just astute political analysis.

    I'm thrilled to see Bernie doing well but that doesn't make you (and a much too large percentage of his supporters) any less of an asshole.
    Yeah, you've always shown such a willingness to engage in the issues rather than personal attacks and impotent dismissiveness.

    If you want to argue about politics, that's fine. You make it personal immediately and without cause, showing yourself to be a reactionary hack. You contribute nothing of value. Now, am I being an asshole for saying this, or am I accurately stating your presence here? I think I'm pretty fucking on point. At the end of the day, I may very well be an asshole. But I'm trying to be less of one publicly. You might want to do the same, but you're free to do you.

  7. #4427
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    Here are just some things Warren has accomplished. There are more, but these are just three things highlighted from one source with a quick search, and they are a good start of examples for why she is qualified. When you tally up her life as a politician, TW, do these count for nothing?

    1. She proposed and established the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau under Obama, helping protect people from predatory lenders and credit card companies. To preempt you, it has not been a perfect Bureau (none are), but it has done a lot of good.

    2. She ran a successful campaign for her current Senate seat, where she became a highly respected progressive voice consistently championing things progressives care about (that is, until she decided too run against Bernie).

    3. In only her first three years, she has sponsored over three dozen bills, including the Equal Employment Act for All, the Schedules That Work Act, the Trade Transparency Act, and the Fed Accountability Act.

    Again, she was well-respected and well liked by those in the progressive wing, but now she is a complete garbage candidate with not real beliefs, really? It just so happens that she has a consistent record of fighting for legislation that champions and advocates for women’s rights, paid family leave, low-wage workers, fair trade, and affordable education? All of this is just BS? You really do not think she cares about these things, or health care, or the environment? You really think she wouldn't be better on all of these issues than Donald Trump?
    Last edited by Sour Masher; 02-23-2020 at 07:28 PM.

  8. #4428
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    I will also add that she is extremely smart and knowledgeable about the issues, and that counts for something, because it means she can think through these problems and understand and navigate how best to address them in practical, meaningful ways.

    Does all this mean I agree with her campaign strategy against Bernie? No. I don't even approve of her making a joke about Bloomberg's height, not because I care about his feelings, but because it is beneath her--just like him, literally (I can make a juvenile joke, because I'm not running for the highest office in the land; she should not; we need to return some dignity to the office).

    But she has a lot of good on her resume. She not only fights for the right things, she knows how to get them done.

  9. #4429
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    But all of this is probably moot, because she is very unlikely to win at this point. Bernie seems to have the inside track, so I'm going to stop spending my time defending the rest of the field. It likely won't matter.

  10. #4430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Masher View Post
    Here are just some things Warren has accomplished. There are more, but these are just three things highlighted from one source with a quick search, and they are a good start of examples for why she is qualified. When you tally up her life as a politician, TW, do these count for nothing?

    1. She proposed and established the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau under Obama, helping protect people from predatory lenders and credit card companies. To preempt you, it has not been a perfect Bureau (none are), but it has done a lot of good.

    2. She ran a successful campaign for her current Senate seat, where she became a highly respected progressive voice consistently championing things progressives care about (that is, until she decided too run against Bernie).

    3. In only her first three years, she has sponsored over three dozen bills, including the Equal Employment Act for All, the Schedules That Work Act, the Trade Transparency Act, and the Fed Accountability Act.

    Again, she was well-respected and well liked by those in the progressive wing, but now she is a complete garbage candidate with not real beliefs, really? It just so happens that she has a consistent record of fighting for legislation that champions and advocates for women’s rights, paid family leave, low-wage workers, fair trade, and affordable education? All of this is just BS? You really do not think she cares about these things, or health care, or the environment? You really think she wouldn't be better on all of these issues than Donald Trump?
    Has Elizabeth Warren pursued social democratic policies in the past, worthy of credit from any Bernie supporter? Absolutely.

    But being genuine, not pandering, holding consistent beliefs. These are qualities which affect how much of your stated agenda you will be able to pass. Her campaign missteps are too numerous to go into. But her foreign policy record and rhetoric look BAD, her performative wokeness antics have been BAD, her policies such as criminalizing disinformation on the internet , or her asinine 2-step M4A plan have been disastrous on their face. Most folks here think I'm just expressing my bias when I point out these flaws, but they won't even step up to defend them.

    Do I think Warren is dogshit? No. Equal to Trump? Hell no. Do I think she would be perfectly fine working in her niche field of interest in a Sanders administration, something in the financial end? Sure, I mean, I would hope for someone with more guts, but she's acceptable.

    Am I out of line in my assessment?

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