Election 2020

[Teenwolf]

I don't think anyone has been DOA, but it's particularly strange you would tag Biden as such when he still clearly performs best across all polling, whether among prospective primary options or for the general election, nationally and state-by-state. That said, I do think that a populist/progressive economic message like Sanders's could be equally effective at winning the rust belt, versus a more moderate/centrist message. Both reach "blue collar" folks in different ways, with one (centrism) likely to play better among older working class whites, and the other (economic populism) likely to play better among younger working class whites.

I will re-phrase. Biden is far from DOA, as most polling shows him #1, I think Bernie ahead in 1 poll only... that said, i fully believe that polling metrics favouring landlines and name recognition are the only things propping up Biden, and he is really a paper tiger, extremely vulnerable both for his long-standing right leaning track record and his propensity for major gaffes. He keeps reaching out to Republicans because he's stuck in the 90's... saying Mike Pence is a good guy and it made you sad that people didn't clap for him? Please, what a pathetic and out of date fool. I've been clamoring hard for him to run on here for a long time now, specifically because of how much I believe it helps Bernie. But i recognize that's considered an extreme opinion, which is why I ended by saying "hear me now, believe me later."

You still think Klobuchar has a snowball's chance in hell? Did you watch that town hall?

I find it hilarious that MSM keeps repeating "why would the Democrats nominate an opportunistic Democrat-by-label-only?" without stopping to consider "why would the Progressive Democrats nominate an opportunistic Progressive-by-label-only to lead the party?"

Do you honestly think people want incrementalists who will cave to the right on Med4All, after the clusterfuck of the ACA being written to appease the right? In my opinion, the war between the establishment and populism is over. Trump's fake populism, combined with Bernie's sustained popularity on issues make him the clear frontrunner. I admit it's still hella early, but I could not have imagined a stronger rollout from Bernie.

[The Feral Slasher]

"and JJ like to label policies extreme and unpopular even when they are actually favored by a majority of the population"

please show your work in order to receive university credit

Sure, just as soon as you show your work that Bernie has a problem in the rust belt and Florida. One man's opinion posted in the WSJ doesn't really count.

[Judge Jude]

Sure, just as soon as you show your work that Bernie has a problem in the rust belt and Florida. One man's opinion posted in the WSJ doesn't really count.

show me where I said that "Bernie has a problem in the rust belt and Florida."

spoiler alert: I didn't. no credit allocated.

[The Feral Slasher]

show me where I said that "Bernie has a problem in the rust belt and Florida."

spoiler alert: I didn't. no credit allocated.

lol, I guess you just wanted to imply it to maintain some deniability when you got called out. Well done.

[The Feral Slasher]

the problem for Sanders is that he could get 4M extra votes in CA and NY - and every one of them is utterly useless unless he, or rivals, want to run up the popular vote score.

all that matters, sad to say, is the Rust Belt and Florida, pretty much.

Quote Originally Posted by Judge Jude View Post---show me where I said that "Bernie has a problem in the rust belt and Florida."

[Judge Jude]

wow. is English your first language? I'm guessing no.

the "problem" I noted is - well, read it again. hint: it has to do with getting extra votes in CA and NY, and how that wouldn't help him in the Electoral College.

now, take a deep breath. now take another one.

ok, we now move to the next phase: "all that matters, sad to say, is the Rust Belt and Florida, pretty much."

for reasons that currently escape me, you strawman me into supposedly saying that "Bernie has a problem in the Rust Belt and Florida."

read it again. oh, crap, I said nothing of the kind. I said ALL THAT MATTERS.

I don't know if his campaign will do well in the Rust Belt in Florida or not - and I implied no such thing.

please either read this post and recognize your error, or put me on ignore.

P.S. I do give extra credit for you quoting my own post that demonstrates your lack of reading comprehension. I imagine the rest of the class appreciates it. Well done.

[The Feral Slasher]

wow. is English your first language? I'm guessing no.

the "problem" I noted is - well, read it again. hint: it has to do with getting extra votes in CA and NY, and how that wouldn't help him in the Electoral College.

now, take a deep breath. now take another one.

ok, we now move to the next phase: "all that matters, sad to say, is the Rust Belt and Florida, pretty much."

for reasons that currently escape me, you strawman me into supposedly saying that "Bernie has a problem in the Rust Belt and Florida."

read it again. oh, crap, I said nothing of the kind. I said ALL THAT MATTERS.

I don't know if his campaign will do well in the Rust Belt in Florida or not - and I implied no such thing.

please either read this post and recognize your error, or put me on ignore.

P.S. I do give extra credit for you quoting my own post that demonstrates your lack of reading comprehension. I imagine the rest of the class appreciates it. Well done.

from the Wall Street Journal:

"If these are your two options to win back the White House, Democrats, which way are you leaning?

“The first is to win back the “blue wall” states Mr. Trump snatched away in 2016 — Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. This approach would require a candidate moderate enough to appeal to rural and working-class voters.

"The second strategy is to target the Southern and Sunbelt states — North Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Arizona, Texas — where the longstanding Republican advantage is narrow or eroding.”

........................

yes. but in neither case is a vigorously progressive play going to work (unless there is such a tidal wave that it won't matter what states to seek. but how many of those states seem ripe for the picking?)

.....

[Judge Jude]

sigh.
if Bernie's campaign - or others' - winds up "vigorously progressive," then yes I don't think that is going to work overall.

I'm not assuming that he is unwilling to reach practical conclusions about his platform in order to succeed - maybe you are, and that is a key difference.

finally, "JJ like[s] to label policies extreme and unpopular even when they are actually favored by a majority of the population"

news flash: not every vigorously progressive stance is "actually favored by a majority of the population."

I'll get you started with one, from last summer:

WASHINGTON (AP) — The rallying cry from some liberals to abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement isn’t a likely winner this election year, as a new poll finds only a quarter of Democrats support eliminating the agency that carried out the Trump administration’s policy of separating immigrant children from their parents.

[The Feral Slasher]

sigh.
if Bernie's campaign - or others' - winds up "vigorously progressive," then yes I don't think that is going to work overall.

I'm not assuming that he is unwilling to reach practical conclusions about his platform in order to succeed - maybe you are, and that is a key difference.

finally, "JJ like[s] to label policies extreme and unpopular even when they are actually favored by a majority of the population"

news flash: not every vigorously progressive stance is "actually favored by a majority of the population."

I'll get you started with one, from last summer:

WASHINGTON (AP) — The rallying cry from some liberals to abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement isn’t a likely winner this election year, as a new poll finds only a quarter of Democrats support eliminating the agency that carried out the Trump administration’s policy of separating immigrant children from their parents.

I think Bernie Sanders policies are pretty clear and have been consistent for the last 4 years - so do you consider them vigorously porgressive ?

Edit- and I apologize for calling you an idiot, that wasn't something I should have done.

[Judge Jude]

let's reboot.

it's VERY difficult for a Democratic Presidential candidate to lose to Trump.

Hillary found a way - keep using the "basket of deplorables" insult at one campaign fundraiser after another, and don't even show up in key Rust Belt states.

another way would be to offer a platform that doesn't appeal to the Rust Belt (or the Sun Belt, as noted).

I don't see Joe Sixpack from western Pennsylvania or from Ohio buying in on a lot of the progressive wish list - abolishing ICE being just one example. Free college? Free money for existing? I have my doubts that it plays in that region. There are progressive ideas that might work with that audience, but I think "vigorously progressive" - a radical change, basically - is a recipe for a Trump re-election.

now, is radical change what we NEED? that's not really the same question. if you don't get elected first, you don't get to make any changes.

[revo]

I think, as of today, Biden is the only one capable of winning in Pennsylvania (his homestate), Ohio, Wisconsin & Michigan. Yeah, Sherrod Brown would probably win Ohio, but not likely the other three. I think Biden can win all four.

Add in a Veep candidate like Harris and they could galvanize the African-American vote; or add in Beto, and they can galvanize the younger crowd AND make a strong play for Texas.

Both tickets would be formidable, as long as they DON'T FUCK IT UP.

[Sour Masher]

or add in Beto, and they can galvanize the younger crowd AND make a strong play for Texas.

I don't see it happening any time soon, but man, IF, one day, Democrats can flip Texas, it is game over for the Republican party in terms of national elections. Like, the moment that happens, I'm thinking we will hear from the right about abolishing the electoral college or having more states have split electoral votes (something I favor)

[nullnor]

i think you could roll out the guy from the movie weekend at bernies and he would still beat trump.

[The Feral Slasher]

let's reboot.

it's VERY difficult for a Democratic Presidential candidate to lose to Trump.

Hillary found a way - keep using the "basket of deplorables" insult at one campaign fundraiser after another, and don't even show up in key Rust Belt states.

another way would be to offer a platform that doesn't appeal to the Rust Belt (or the Sun Belt, as noted).

I don't see Joe Sixpack from western Pennsylvania or from Ohio buying in on a lot of the progressive wish list - abolishing ICE being just one example. Free college? Free money for existing? I have my doubts that it plays in that region. There are progressive ideas that might work with that audience, but I think "vigorously progressive" - a radical change, basically - is a recipe for a Trump re-election.

now, is radical change what we NEED? that's not really the same question. if you don't get elected first, you don't get to make any changes.

I think i will pass

[TS Garp]

I think i will pass

I'm proud of you.