Election 2020

[gcstomp]

Joe Biden has been on record as saying he did not even know about his son Hunter getting that job until son had been hired for some time, and he never discussed anything Ukraine related at any time with his son. Contrast this with actual in your face nepotism, with Jared and Ivanka. This is just absurd. When Obama was in office a big scandal was he wore a brown suit to meet with world leaders. It captured multiple segments on FOX of people gnashing their teeth. This is because of how drama free from illegality the presidency was, how above board Obama every dealing was.

Now, we have on a daily basis, more hate filled madness such as the Stephen Miller stuff today. Gee, the guy who has as his lifework being critical of immigrants is found to be actively immersed in white nationalist sites, and literally thousands of email chains related to the nonsense. Its not a problem that Miller, the one who is the prime ear worm to trump on immigration policies, ie what we should do with people of dark skin, is the racist we all know he is. This is just another day.

[Sour Masher]

Well, Joe has said his son did nothing wrong and he probably didn’t. But as TW noted, it’s the kind of soft corruption that raises red flags for a lot of us. Kind of like the Clinton Global Initiative that was not buying influence with the presumed President, but wound up closing down a few weeks after the election when she sudden,y had no power. Is it illegal? Certainly not. Does it look like Biden didn’t do anything to prevent his son from enriching himself in a way you and I can’t? No, he embraced what his son did. Clearly and without reservation. The blue team can choose to ignore how that is going to play with voters at their own risk.

Apples and oranges to me. The Clintons sins are their own. The payments Bill gets for his speeches are insane. They share finances. They both have dirty hands there. Biden's son's actions and gains are his own. Also, Joe may be seeing through the clouded lense of a father, and he may have said different things privately than publically.

[Sour Masher]

Bottom line: If Hunter Biden is your reason for voting Trump over Biden, you were never gonna vote for Biden, and you are ignoring vastly more egregious corruption and self enrichment from Trump.

[gcstomp]

the discipline needed to simply process information regarding hearings should not be a partisan issue.

this is an extortion case, of trump dangling hundreds of millions of our tax dollars to a foreign govt in dire need of the funds to shield themselves from further bloodshed from our shared enemy. trump demands a public announcement by prez ukraine himself saying words investigations and bidens. a fabricated investigation, trump just needed the announcement.

yes, funds were eventually released, day after the story became public regarding funds being held up and trump was busted. http://www.startribune.com/timeline-...ine/564891462/ this does not make this a non issue. when fbi busts into someone house to stop the bombmaker in progress, we dont say, gee no harm, no foul. no bomb actually went off in time square.

[Sour Masher]

I feel like every reason I have for not being a Biden backer is better than Hunter Biden using his name to get a job.

[Ken]

when fbi busts into someone house to stop the bombmaker in progress, we dont say, gee no harm, no foul. no bomb actually went off in time square.

Great analogy, I'm going to re-use that one

[The Feral Slasher]

I feel like every reason I have for not being a Biden backer is .... Biden

Heh heh.

[nots]

Bottom line: If Hunter Biden is your reason for voting Trump over Biden, you were never gonna vote for Biden, and you are ignoring vastly more egregious corruption and self enrichment from Trump.

I dont think that's true at all. Plenty of Obama/Trump voters last time. I would think nearly everyone of them is persuadable. If the Obama administration had concerns with Hunter's 'job's, I would think it reasonable that some Obama/Trunp voters do too.

[gcstomp]

the actual corruption of trump, and his actual nepotism re: jared/ivanka is no issue and people who maybe would be on fence will vote trump. why? because of some half baked theory re: hunter biden taking a job that joe biden didnt even know about until after the fact equals some kind of wrong doing on joes part?

this just doesnt make sense. and it is the kind of smoke screen we witnessed at hearings where dems were questioning about relevant points, and repubs used every bit of their time to throw up smoke and touch on debunked theories rather than pursue questions regarding this extortion case. and whee is link showing obama was concerned regarding beau? scratch that, joe was dealing at that exact time with other son beau dying from brain cancer. hunter landed a job, joe had zero to do with it, but this is the concern, rather than jared/ivanka who actually are placed in meetings with world leaders in created for the family jobs. this just does not make sense that somehow joe has a problem here.

and i know joe biden has other problems. i would bet joe does not finish in top 3 dnc candidates, is there a betting window, because i am confident joe doesnt last through cycle to the end, but this cant be the issue.

[Sour Masher]

I dont think that's true at all. Plenty of Obama/Trump voters last time. I would think nearly everyone of them is persuadable. If the Obama administration had concerns with Hunter's 'job's, I would think it reasonable that some Obama/Trunp voters do too.

You think it is reasonable that someone would choose to vote for Trump instead of Joe Biden on the basis of Hunter Biden getting a job he wasn't qualified for, weighing that against what Trump has said and done? Even if they have concerns, those concerns should be far outweighed by the concerns they should have over Trump.

[Sour Masher]

the actual corruption of trump, and his actual nepotism re: jared/ivanka is no issue and people who maybe would be on fence will vote trump. why? because of some half baked theory re: hunter biden taking a job that joe biden didnt even know about until after the fact equals some kind of wrong doing on joes part?

this just doesnt make sense. and it is the kind of smoke screen we witnessed at hearings where dems were questioning about relevant points, and repubs used every bit of their time to throw up smoke and touch on debunked theories rather than pursue questions regarding this extortion case. and whee is link showing obama was concerned regarding beau? scratch that, joe was dealing at that exact time with other son beau dying from brain cancer. hunter landed a job, joe had zero to do with it, but this is the concern, rather than jared/ivanka who actually are placed in meetings with world leaders in created for the family jobs. this just does not make sense that somehow joe has a problem here.

and i know joe biden has other problems. i would bet joe does not finish in top 3 dnc candidates, is there a betting window, because i am confident joe doesnt last through cycle to the end, but this cant be the issue.

Great point. How are people all up in arms as if Hunter Biden getting a job in the Ukraine based on his dad's name is such a deal breaker when Trump flat out gives his own kids jobs they are 1000000% not qualified for?! It's nuts. I just cannot believe people are falling for this deflection from a guy blatantly doing so much worse all the time, and like the exact same things he accuses others of.

[nots]

Great point. How are people all up in arms as if Hunter Biden getting a job in the Ukraine based on his dad's name is such a deal breaker when Trump flat out gives his own kids jobs they are 1000000% not qualified for?! It's nuts. I just cannot believe people are falling for this deflection from a guy blatantly doing so much worse all the time, and like the exact same things he accuses others of.

Trump’s kids aren’t making $50k a month.
They also aren’t anymore unqualified for their jobs than a guy who doesn’t speak Ukrainian working in an industry he knows nothing about. He too would be ‘1000000%’ not qualified. So if it was a big deal when Trump did it (spoiler alert:it certainly was in the bar), it ought to be a big deal now.
Let’s flip the narrative:what possible reason would that company have to hire an unqualified guy other than to curry favor with the VP? Or to create the appearance of legitimacy?

[Sour Masher]

Trump’s kids aren’t making $50k a month.
They also aren’t anymore unqualified for their jobs than a guy who doesn’t speak Ukrainian working in an industry he knows nothing about. He too would be ‘1000000%’ not qualified. So if it was a big deal when Trump did it (spoiler alert:it certainly was in the bar), it ought to be a big deal now.
Let’s flip the narrative:what possible reason would that company have to hire an unqualified guy other than to curry favor with the VP? Or to create the appearance of legitimacy?

Trump hired his kids. Joe Biden did not. Someone else hired Joe Biden's son. I am sure they did it curry favor, but is there any evidence it worked? You really see Trump putting his kids in key positions as equivilant to someone else hiring Hunter Biden? They are not the same thing.

[nots]

Trump hired his kids. Joe Biden did not. Someone else hired Joe Biden's son. I am sure they did it curry favor, but is there any evidence it worked? You really see Trump putting his kids in key positions as equivilant to someone else hiring Hunter Biden? They are not the same thing.

So in order for it to be seedy there has to be evidence it worked? Interesting. Someone should have let those Obama administration folks they shouldn’t have been concerned then.

[Sour Masher]

So in order for it to be seedy there has to be evidence it worked? Interesting. Someone should have let those Obama administration folks they shouldn’t have been concerned then.

What exactly does "concerned" me to you? To me, it means, this looks potentially shady. Let's look into that to see if that is the case. Concern to me means, lets see if there is wrongdoing. I already said I'd be concerned too, and I'd look into it if Biden worked under me. Is concern code to you for actual evidence of wrongdoing? Being concerned of wrongdoing is one thing, and then finding those concerns are founded in wrongdoing is another.

Once again, where is your evidence that Joe Biden did anything wrong here? My evidence of Trump doing wrong is that he hired his children. Pretty clear cut. What did Joe Biden do? Or should we just accept that his failure to stop his son from taking a job he is not qualified for is equivalent to he himself giving him a job? That is what you seem to be doing.

I think your standards of judging people based on the actions of the relatives is absurd, frankly. I judge Trump based on what Trump does. Show me something bad Biden did on this issue and I will judge him on that. Him not stopping or publicly condemning his grown son from trading on his name is totally not the same thing to me as Trump hiring his own children. I can't believe you see it as the same thing. You trying to make it the same leads me to believe you must believe Joe Biden pulled strings to get Hunter that job and winked and nodded at suggestions doing so would curry his favor as VP. I do not believe that to be the case. I see no evidence for it. If that were true, I would agree, it would be just as bad, and something Biden should absolutely be condemned for doing. It should disqualify him during the primaries.

But even if you believe they are the same, and assume the worst about Joe Biden, despite no evidence supporting that belief, Trump hiring his children is only one of a million immoral things he has done, so once again, explain how a voter primarily concerned about such matters would pick Trump over Biden?