Election 2020

[DMT]

I think the far left will stay with him. I think the youth vote (including material segments of those who turned 18 after 2016) are up for grabs. You and Teenwolf are representative of the left wing. You are not representative of the youth vote.

I also think that once the 2016 race narrowed to Clinton and Sanders, it is fair to assume that "not her" was the ultimate driving factor for some primary voters (much as it was for many general election voters). Some of that was over perceived corruption. Some over a perception that she'd be too open to and favoring of military solutions to foreign policy problems. Some based on personal/personality aversion and/or misogyny. That's not necessarily there for Sanders in a crowded field or even one-on-one against a different candidate.

But the youth vote is trending left so I don't think Sanders will have that much difficulty appealing to them. I think it's going to come down to Sanders vs Biden but we'll see.

[TS Garp]

But the youth vote is trending left so I don't think Sanders will have that much difficulty appealing to them. I think it's going to come down to Sanders vs Biden but we'll see.

Two very old white guys -- just what the Democrats need.

[B-Fly]

But the youth vote is trending left so I don't think Sanders will have that much difficulty appealing to them. I think it's going to come down to Sanders vs Biden but we'll see.

I think there are additional candidates who could also appeal to them, unlike 2016. Plus, I think it would be foolish to deny the appeal of youth to youth (Buttigieg, Castro, O'Rourke, Gabbard, Yang and Booker are all under 50), or the appeal of candidates of color (Harris, Booker, Castro, Gabbard, Yang) to young voters of color.

[DMT]

I think there are additional candidates who could also appeal to them, unlike 2016. Plus, I think it would be foolish to deny the appeal of youth to youth (Buttigieg, Castro, O'Rourke, Gabbard, Yang and Booker are all under 50), or the appeal of candidates of color (Harris, Booker, Castro, Gabbard, Yang) to young voters of color.

Is it any more foolish than denying Sanders' appeal as the initiator of the progressive shift of the party?

[DMT]

I like what I've heard from Yang and Buttigieg but ultimately they're pushing ahead under Sanders' shadow.

[B-Fly]

Two very old white guys -- just what the Democrats need.

Indeed. I think DMT and Teenwolf are projecting too heavily from a 2016 race where, other than brief toe dips by O'Malley, Chafee and Webb, it was quickly down to Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders. This will look more like the 2016 Republican primaries, IMO, where you have crowded caucuses, primaries and debates through at least Super Tuesday. The biggest difference on the Democratic primary side tends to be the Black vote, which historically follows its leaders and leverages voting power as a block. The Black vote particularly dominates the southern primaries. If Sanders doesn't improve there, I doubt he can win.

[DMT]

Two very old white guys -- just what the Democrats need.

Yes let's ignore ideas and categorize by demographics.

[B-Fly]

Is it any more foolish than denying Sanders' appeal as the initiator of the progressive shift of the party?

I have not done that. I just think he doesn't and won't "own" the youth vote in a more diverse field of candidates, with that diversity measured in age, race/ethnicity, gender, style and ideology.

[TS Garp]

Yes let's ignore ideas and categorize by demographics.

Look, I hear you, but you can't pretend that the optics on this won't be problematic.

[DMT]

I have not done that. I just think he doesn't and won't "own" the youth vote in a more diverse field of candidates, with that diversity measured in age, race/ethnicity, gender, style and ideology.

I never said he'll "own" the youth vote, nor does he have to. I agree he'll have to do much better with POC to win.

[DMT]

Look, I hear you, but you can't pretend that the optics on this won't be problematic.

The optics aren't going to be problematic once the nominee is chosen. I'm sure if either of them are chosen, they will choose a POC and/or woman as their running mate.

[The Feral Slasher]

Look, I hear you, but you can't pretend that the optics on this won't be problematic.

I hope the best ideas win out. It's hard to say if it would be an advantage or not. I can just hear Trump, "it's been 16 years since a white male has been nominated by the Democrats, all they care about is identity politics, blah, blah blah"

[The Feral Slasher]

The optics aren't going to be problematic once the nominee is chosen. I'm sure if either of them are chosen, they will choose a POC and/or woman as they're running mate.

I agree with this

[Sour Masher]

I never said he'll "own" the youth vote, nor does he have to. I agree he'll have to do much better with POC to win.

I agree on the POC thing. His heart is in the right place, but has been pretty clueless and out of touch with that demographic to date.

[B-Fly]

Yes let's ignore ideas and categorize by demographics.

Every winning non-incumbent Democrat in political memory has been young. Obama, Clinton, Carter, Kennedy. When we've run old candidates (whether centrist or progressive), we've lost.