Election 2020

[Teenwolf]

Is the unfairness of this fact sufficient cause to drop impeachment? Public pressure on the on the left has been high to do this. Do you think Pelosi would ignore that pressure if Biden were a senator and the progressive candidates were not? Do you believe her and the Dems primary motivation with impeachment is to screw Sanders and Warren, or to signal to Trump that him holding the Ukraine ransom until they agreed to discredit a political rival is unacceptable behavior for a president?

I'm willing to believe Pelosi and other moderates aren't gonna lose sleep over what they may consider a happy side benefit to impeachment, but I don't believe that is her/their primary motivation on this. Trump deserves to be impeached. GOPers need to be put on record with this vote. I think it will haunt them. I don't think this is an insurmountable obstacle to Sanders and Warren. Hell, if by some miracle, impeachment happens, they could use it as a big win as the two candidates that voted to help make it happen. I know that is a long shot, though. They can still cite themselves as candidates actually working in Washington to get things done while others just campaign.

I've said from the start, Trump should have been impeached for different reasons. Emoluments violations are clear, go after that. But no, the evidence they're using is bullshit, and the corruption of the Bidens revealed and defended by the Democrats within this impeachment case is going to be fucking kryptonite in the general if Biden is the nominee, and he will lose partly because of it.

As far as the strategy Pelosi is employing hurting Sanders and Warren, I'm with you that I think it's a side benefit. She believes it will hurt him in the general election, and she's convinced you of the same. It's so crazy to me. You have a nearly 100% guarantee that Trump will be able to claim victory over the failure to impeach him. I notice all of you have stopped parroting the media narrative that "support for impeachment is skyrocketing". According to the video I posted, support for impeachment is at 49%, against impeachment 45%. Nothing is going to happen here. But if Pelosi can use the whole charade to sideline Warren and Sanders, that's a tasty little side bonus for the party elites. Great... run another election on how "Trump is immoral... deplorable even!"... I'm sure that message will win, just like last time.

[B-Fly]

Another late entrant to the Democratic Primaries in Deval Patrick. Not sure why or how he'd pull support away from the existing candidates. I generally like to see governor experience, and maybe Patrick has a bit more charisma than Inslee, Hickenlooper and Bullock, but if those popular governors couldn't connect and the two mainstream Black Democratic candidates couldn't drum up much support among Black primary voters, I don't know that Patrick can make much of a dent.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-deval-patrick-is-making-a-late-bid-for-the-democratic-nomination/

[B-Fly]

This should really piss off DMT.

Impeachment will not happen. But the process will keep Sanders and Warren stuck in Washington for 6 days a week through Jan + Feb. Huge win for Biden.

I see no way in which the drawing out of this impeachment process on the Ukraine quid pro quo grounds is remotely a thumb on the scale for Joe Biden, since he and his son will continue taking so much return fire/collateral damage.

[Teenwolf]

I see no way in which the drawing out of this impeachment process on the Ukraine quid pro quo grounds is remotely a thumb on the scale for Joe Biden, since he and his son will continue taking so much return fire/collateral damage.

I should have said "huge win for Biden in the primaries".

Impeachment hurts Sanders and Warren in the primary, impeachment hurts Joe Biden in the general. The damage will be far reaching, and I doubt it hurts Trump at all. I hope I'm wrong.

[B-Fly]

I should have said "huge win for Biden in the primaries".

Impeachment hurts Sanders and Warren in the primary, impeachment hurts Joe Biden in the general. The damage will be far reaching, and I doubt it hurts Trump at all. I hope I'm wrong.

I still disagree, since Joe Biden's best primary argument is electability head-to-head with Trump. If he's stained by the public vetting of Ukraine over the course of these impeachment processes, that would presumably hurt his head-to-head polling against Trump which in turn would presumably hurt him in the primaries. Biden needs to be able to keep pointing to polls that show him as the best candidate to beat Trump in PA, MI, WI, etc.

[gcstomp]

pelosi has proceeded expertly. she delayed impeachment path until she had to, until the support was just overwhelming and demanded. if pelosi had been gung ho and tried impeachment with say the 10 counts of well defined obstruction as laid out in pt 2 of mueller report, or say an emoluments path, it would have died on vine with such ticky tack game playing. yes trump has profited from office, people knew before he was elected that he was a con man after the quick buck. that is not national security stuff that shakes the world balance peace.

this deal here, this extortion, is the one that pelosi had to go hard as this is beyond what any president has done, or almost any crime you could think up. if this isnt impeachable, a simple extortion of weapons for fabricated dirt on political rival case. this is clear, simple case, with multiple layers of people supporting what happened to such an extent that rnc isnt really arguing what happened.

this case of i give you this mountain of money critical for your national defense, if you give me a favor though. yes, you are in middle of russian aggression, yes during this delay that trump held funds while doing his mafia extortion, ukraines died that maybe would not have if only the long awaited funds for the javelins and other defense systems that would have been in place via funds. trump demanded ukraine prez make public announcement that new investigations be opened vs bidens. trump didnt especially care if they were real investigations, this has been clear that joe biden did nothing wrong here. you need to be deep in the fever swamp to still, today, be pushing a narrative that there was actual wrongdoing by biden.

now the r majority in senate makes any case hopeless for removal from office. graham said he wont even read anything produced from hearings. mcconnell said he will be forced to proceed when it comes to senate but it will be dead on arrival no matter what. it would have been impossible for pelosi to not pursue as she has on this thou.

[Teenwolf]

Hillary Clinton's emails were less problematic than Hunter Biden's corruption, and Trump used the emails to get elected. The Burisma board seat may be "soft corruption", or "garden variety corruption", but pretending it wouldn't be devastating in the general is ridiculous. Biden's respons has been blatantly lying, saying "no credible source has accused us of any wrongdoing, end of story." He's totally unwilling to admit his son traded on his name, which is clear as day. He was a literal crack addict while earning millions in total on a board he has no authority on the industry whatsoever. He flew on Air Force 2 with his dad to China the day before his company signed a $1.5 Bn dollar deal. Before that, he was on the board for Amtrak because it was said "he rode the trains a lot." I could not imagine more ripe material for a Trump election.

Democrats and media have largely adopted the narrative that Gcstomp lays out, that the attacks on Biden are totally baseless. That type of unwillingness to address corruption within ones own party... think that will play well with independents, who have around a 50% approval of Trump?

I cant believe I'm quoting fucking Andrew Yang, but he made a good point on Breakfast Club yesterday. "Every moment we're talking about impeaching Donald Trump, or Donald Trump in any context, we are not creating a positive vision for the country for Americans to get excited about. So if we go into this election, and it's all about Donald Trump, we're going to lose again."

[Sour Masher]

Hillary Clinton's emails were less problematic than Hunter Biden's corruption, and Trump used the emails to get elected. The Burisma board seat may be "soft corruption", or "garden variety corruption", but pretending it wouldn't be devastating in the general is ridiculous. Biden's respons has been blatantly lying, saying "no credible source has accused us of any wrongdoing, end of story." He's totally unwilling to admit his son traded on his name, which is clear as day. He was a literal crack addict while earning millions in total on a board he has no authority on the industry whatsoever. He flew on Air Force 2 with his dad to China the day before his company signed a $1.5 Bn dollar deal. Before that, he was on the board for Amtrak because it was said "he rode the trains a lot." I could not imagine more ripe material for a Trump election.

Democrats and media have largely adopted the narrative that Gcstomp lays out, that the attacks on Biden are totally baseless. That type of unwillingness to address corruption within ones own party... think that will play well with independents, who have around a 50% approval of Trump?

I cant believe I'm quoting fucking Andrew Yang, but he made a good point on Breakfast Club yesterday. "Every moment we're talking about impeaching Donald Trump, or Donald Trump in any context, we are not creating a positive vision for the country for Americans to get excited about. So if we go into this election, and it's all about Donald Trump, we're going to lose again."

What evidence is there that Biden encouraged or benefited from his son making sure his name was the best thing about his resume? I haven't seen it. I really don't get it. Why should I be held accountable for the actions of a family member? I have an uncle in prison for murder? Should that reflect poorly on me? Despite Repubs trying to suggest otherwise, there is no evidence that JOE Biden did anything wrong on this. He didn't threaten or withhold funds to stop an investigation of his son. if he did do that, that would be horrible. But he didn't. So why is it a big deal that his son, with no evidence that his dad pulled strings himself, used his name to get ahead. Isn't that what most rich and famous people do, if they can get away with it?

[nots]

What evidence is there that Biden encouraged or benefited from his son making sure his name was the best thing about his resume? I haven't seen it. I really don't get it. Why should I be held accountable for the actions of a family member? I have an uncle in prison for murder? Should that reflect poorly on me? Despite Repubs trying to suggest otherwise, there is no evidence that JOE Biden did anything wrong on this. He didn't threaten or withhold funds to stop an investigation of his son. if he did do that, that would be horrible. But he didn't. So why is it a big deal that his son, with no evidence that his dad pulled strings himself, used his name to get ahead. Isn't that what most rich and famous people do, if they can get away with it?

At the time, there were folks in the Obama administration that were concerned about how it looked. Were they wrong or misguided to have those concerns?

[Sour Masher]

At the time, there were folks in the Obama administration that were concerned about how it looked. Were they wrong or misguided to have those concerns?

How what looked? Hunter getting the job? If so, sure, I would be concerned too. As a father, I would ask him not to trade on my name to get a job he is not qualified for. What can be done besides that? He is a grown man being offerred crazy money. How could Joe have stopped him?

[nots]

How what looked? Hunter getting the job? If so, sure, I would be concerned too. As a father, I would ask him not to trade on my name to get a job he is not qualified for. What can be done besides that? He is a grown man being offerred crazy money. How could Joe have stopped him?

Is there any record of Biden asking him not to take that job? Or did he think it was a good idea?

[Sour Masher]

Is there any record of Biden asking him not to take that job? Or did he think it was a good idea?

Him doing so or not is impossible to prove. Is there evidence Joe used his influence to get him the job? Either way, I am not defending Joe Biden as much as the idea that the sins of family are our sins.

[Sour Masher]

Here is how much Sanders qnd Warren's plans would have taken from top billionaire if implemented in in 1982. It is a LOT. https://amp.businessinsider.com/bill...-taxes-2019-11

[The Feral Slasher]

Here is how much Sanders qnd Warren's plans would have taken from top billionaire if implemented in in 1982. It is a LOT. https://amp.businessinsider.com/bill...-taxes-2019-11

It's Yuuuuge !

[nots]

Him doing so or not is impossible to prove. Is there evidence Joe used his influence to get him the job? Either way, I am not defending Joe Biden as the idea that the sins of family are our sins.

Well, Joe has said his son did nothing wrong and he probably didn’t. But as TW noted, it’s the kind of soft corruption that raises red flags for a lot of us. Kind of like the Clinton Global Initiative that was not buying influence with the presumed President, but wound up closing down a few weeks after the election when she sudden,y had no power. Is it illegal? Certainly not. Does it look like Biden didn’t do anything to prevent his son from enriching himself in a way you and I can’t? No, he embraced what his son did. Clearly and without reservation. The blue team can choose to ignore how that is going to play with voters at their own risk.